<p>John Tang or Susie Wong wouldn’t need to check any boxes.</p>
<p>
I’m sorry to say that you don’t appear to know what racism is. Racism is a belief that racial characteristics make one race superior to another (generally one’s own race). So, no, affirmative action based on race is not racism, nor is the effort to balance ethnic groups in a college population. Not all decisions based on race are racist.</p>
<p>I also think it’s useful to note again that there is a difference between decisions that are deliberately based on race, and those that aren’t but have a potentially disparate impact on different ethnic groups. An example of the first would be a college that decides that it really wants to have no more than 20% Asians, and just rejects the excess. A possible example of the second would be a college that wants to enroll students from every state in the nation–something that could result in the enrollment of fewer Asians if there are a lot of states that don’t have many Asians. And neither of these decisions is “racist,” unless the reason for doing it is animus against Asians.</p>
<p>^^^
I believe the generally accepted definition of racism would include a belief that one race is superior to another, however some people might argue that merely differentiating people on the basis of race consittitutes racism. I wouldn’t.</p>
<p>I think an admissions policy (deliberately) giving one group preference over another merely based on race is more correctly termed discrimination.</p>
<p>
True, but even there, people tend to think that because something is discrimination, that it’s unlawful, or at least, bad. To take a simple example, a college that wants to maintain 50/50 gender balance will probably have to engage in gender discrimination. Whether it is against men or women will depend on what college it is. Is that a bad thing? It’s hard to say. I certainly know both male and female students who do not want to go to a college that is unbalanced in terms of gender.
And geographic diversity also requires discrimination–a college will take an applicant from Idaho who is less qualified than rejected applicants from California or New Jersey. Is that good or bad?
The issue is whether the reason for the discrimination is reasonable enough to justify the impact on individuals. If you’re one of the individuals from New Jersey who is rejected, naturally it’s difficult to see the great value of geographic diversity.</p>
<p>I wonder how much of a factor the major plays into this. We had attended an event in the elec engg class that DS was taking, and in the lobby of the building they had names and photos of the current graduating class. I thought Asians were a majority, but in the school as a whole, they clearly are not - probably below 25%. </p>
<p>So isn’t it conceivable that an Asian student with high scores was only interested in Electrical Engg or something similar, and was rejected, whereas someone of another ethnicity was interested in a major that averaged lower tangible credentials like scores and gpa, and was accepted?</p>
<p>Interesting points of view noted here. For those who have posted, if you were a student with a Chinese-born father and an American-born mother and were applying to the HYPSM’s, which box would you check?</p>
<p>Lorem,</p>
<p>Who are we kidding. The only kids who don’t check the ethnicity boxes are white and Asian. Why would someone who is receiving a huge advantage hurt themselves?</p>
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</p>
<p>You presumably mean “racial discrimination”. “Discrimination” could be on any characteristic. For example, many schools discriminate in favor of applicants who had higher high school GPAs.</p>
<p>^^^
Yeah. You presume correctly. I was thinking about clarifying this, but I figured everyone would get that from the fact that the word “race” appears a few words before “discrimination” in the same sentence. “Racial discrimination” does have a generally negative connotation, of course.</p>
<p>After six or seven edits for typos every time I post, I get tired of hitting the “Edit” button.</p>
<p>
I would check “multiethnic” if there is such a box, or check both boxes. That’s assuming that by “American-born” you mean “white.”</p>
<p>Let me expand on this a bit. I don’t think it does a white student any good at all to decline to check what race he is. No one will think he might be a URM. For an Asian student, it’s a bit more complicated. It might be true that colleges are limiting the number of Asians, and if this is the case, it might conceivably be to a student’s advantage for the school to think he might be white. But if they are really trying to limit the number of Asians on campus, then the mere fact that you didn’t check ethnicity might not help. If you have an apparently Asian surname, or if your ECs suggest that you are probably Asian, then a school that really wants to limit Asians will just use that information. Ironically, if your ECs and interests provide no clue that you are Asian, it might be better for the school to know that you are Asian and don’t fit into the typical cultural niches occupied by so many Asian applicants. In other words, if you’re an Asian football player who plays the accordion and wants to major in Classics, go ahead and check that you’re Asian. IMHO, of course.</p>
<p>I would check African American if I had no conscience. The question asks which group YOU ASSOCIATE yourself with. I could be white as snow, but associate myself with people who are Native American and African American. And, it’s hard for anyone to speak up and say they believe afirmative action is unfair, because more often then not, they are condemed racists.</p>
<p>My understanding is that you are being asked to “self-identify” your race. So if a mixed-race applicant identifies himself as Asian or White or mixed, check the appropriate box. Obama identifies himself as Black.</p>
<p>
Well, it’s only fair, because people who feel that way like to condemn affirmative action as racism.</p>
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</p>
<p>One wonders how many students DO check on ethnic boxes that they “don’t associate with,” just to have a shot in an über-competitive admissions process. There’s no penalty, no one could prove otherwise and no one who didn’t see your actual application will even know. I’ve seen plenty of threads where those of Egyptian or white South African heritage are looking for justification to call themselves African-American.</p>
<p>Without strict guidelines, the current ethnicity box really boils down to: “If you would like an admissions advantage, please check the URM boxes listed below.”</p>
<p>Those of us who were born here should all check “Native American.” It would be great to see a mass movement where the population rises up and states that we’re all human beings, not mongrels and purebreds.</p>
<p>Probably not going to happen soon, unfortunately.</p>
<p>The college Asian myth of being discriminated in college acceptance</p>
<p>I’m not Asian, but this sure doesn’t look like a myth to me.</p>
<p>MisterK, you’re forgeting one thing. NO WAY could a mass movement be raised to state that we’re all “Native American”. That would be racist. It is only right to discriminate against whites and asains. God forbid someone speaks up and says affirmative action is unfair. I was actually thinking about the AA discussion last night after reading some of Hunt’s posts. In other countries, where one race or religion faced some kind of persecution, does that race or religion receive a hands up in the application process?</p>
<p>UVA, if the masses of college applicants were to engage in civil disobedience, the current system would quickly need to be strictly defined or totally replaced – we need such a dialog today and not just through grumbling on CC. </p>
<p>All it would take is for a significant percentage of white and Asian kids to also check the Hispanic and/or African-American box (American Indian status usually needs to be verified with registered tribal affiliation).</p>
<p>'In particular, URMs know that they can get into Med. Schools with much lower stats., so they do not need to try as hard. It is very known and openly stated fact that nobody even feel bad about any more."</p>
<p>Sigh. wasting my time I know, but not true. A lot of “us” don’t find that out until we hear it here, on College Confidential. Too late to stop trying then. </p>
<p>And while this was decades ago, I didn’t here “you need lower stats” I heard “can’t be done”. I heard “nobody get’s to be a doctor.” Literally Fortunately, I didn’t here it from my parents.</p>
<p>Actually Shrinkwrap, you didn’t “here” anything 
I kid. But it’s not a matter of whether URMs know they’re getting a hands up. It’s a matter of them getting a hands up at all. Can you truly give someone an advantage and not others and not classify it as racial discrimination.</p>