<p>@curmudgeon</p>
<p>If you don't mind me asking, what did your daughter do to get such a prestigious award? Did she publish as the first author?</p>
<p>aruff, she did not "publish". She did have a poster presentation of her research (that has won awards) and a very strong app otherwise. Her research career began as a freshman. Her lab is very well funded and well respected and has had Goldwaters (twice?) before. Her lab allows substantial individual initiative and I believe that is probably what won the day. That and she knows her field backwards and forwards. </p>
<p>She's just a typical well-rounded science geek who is very active socially . I have spoken to one of her profs (last year) and if the prof's opinion hadn't changed then she wrote an absolutely stellar rec. </p>
<p>So....really I have no idea. She's very smart but so are lots of kids. I'd say she got it on chutzpah. Sorry. I was a history major. What do I know? I don't even understand the words in the title.;)</p>
<p>If anything, liberal arts colleges are underrated...</p>
<p>They are greatly overrated and do not reflect the diversity that exists in the real world nor are the environments as conducive to providing the opportunity for students to mature in an environment that is more reflective of the workplace or graduate school. That said, if students are not mature enough to handle a larger diverse environment they are a way to put off dealing with those realities.</p>
<p>Also, I wouldn't rank any LAC among the top 25-30 universities in the country.</p>
<p>There seems to be some agreement that good LACs do a great job of preparing students for graduate school.
How well do they do for those not going on to grad school. Which ones are the best at job placement right out of undergrad?</p>
<p>UCLA - what exactly do you mean by 'not offering the diversity or providing the opportunity to mature'?</p>
<p>As far as the people that attend them, I would beg to differ. And research opportunities and internships are often easier, or at least just as available as at larger instituations. Considering the incredible sucess the top LAC's have in placing people in top graduate institutions, I would readily assume that LAC grads are 'mature enough for the environment of a graduate school'.</p>
<p>And if you compare the graduate profiles of top LACs they compare to anywhere:
Pomona - <a href="http://www.pomona.edu/cdo/2007wheregradsgo.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.pomona.edu/cdo/2007wheregradsgo.pdf</a></p>
<p>Their people going into business compare favorable to UC-Berkeley's business grads(chosen because of the money focus in the field, so easily comparable): <a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/2006SalaryReport.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/2006SalaryReport.pdf</a></p>
<p>Comparable division of professional and grad schools to UChicago(although Pomona adds a sizeable(7%) contingent getting fellowships): <a href="https://caps.uchicago.edu/employers/outcomes.html%5B/url%5D">https://caps.uchicago.edu/employers/outcomes.html</a></p>
<p>Again - business bound people(easiest to compare) are readily comparable to the very good Tepper business school of Carnegie Mellon: <a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/ba.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/ba.pdf</a></p>
<p>Here is Swarthmore's data, which is littered with premier 'prestige' positions such as being a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs: <a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2007_postgrad_survey.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2007_postgrad_survey.pdf</a></p>
<p>I got my these profiles from another CC thread(if you are curious why I used these schools): <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/468409-where-do-graduates-go-official-thread.html?highlight=graduate+profile%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/468409-where-do-graduates-go-official-thread.html?highlight=graduate+profile</a></p>
<p>I fail to see any way in which LAC's are not demonstrating the ability to compete with top Universities.</p>
<p>Crazy perhaps, but I think it's relevant info for the friend that most applicants might consider choosing Lafayette over Lehigh or Bates over BC, but that s/he might be the only one out there who'd be choosing it over Duke or an Ivy.</p>
<p>I don't know about Lafayette, but I can tell you that there are significant numbers of students choosing Oberlin over Duke or an Ivy.</p>
<p>This is typical; the I-don't-get-no-respect LAC lovers offer outcome data, and the Big U lovers offer opinion and theory. The LAC grads have the best of both worlds; superior grad school preparation (according to the data), followed by real-world preparation at the Big U.</p>
<p>Research opportunities are surprisingly easy to come by. I'm a freshman, and already I'm working on several projects with a professor, because I did very well in his class and asked him about gaining research experience. It's all about simply having initiative.</p>
<p>I don't think I have ever read more inane comments than those posted by UCLA, Ph.D.</p>
<p>Agreed; other posts also suggest its being a fantasy screen name.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The LAC grads have the best of both worlds; superior grad school preparation (according to the data), followed by real-world preparation at the Big U
[/quote]
The problem with that is, what if I am among the 80% or so of undergraduates who does not plan on going to grad school anytime soon?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not sure, I MIGHT pick Bates over UPenn or something like that
[/quote]
</p>
<p>one of my good friends at Penn was a transfer from Bates ;)</p>
<p>Yes, ilb, that is what I am trying to get at. What if you do not plan to go to grad school anytime soon? I know Penn has been "accused" of having a pre-professional culture, but the positive aspect of that is good job options. If you weren't going to Penn, are they any LACs that you feel have that characteristic?</p>
<p>Williams is supposed to be more preprofessional. As is CMC. Pomona, Amherst, Middlebury, Swat, and some others are reputed to have very good recruitment too.</p>
<p>thanks, DSC.
I got the sense that Swat and Pomona were more academic/grad-school oriented, which, of course, does not rule out good recruitment. I will try to dig up the thread, but I thought I remember somebody reporting that Swarthmore culture was steering them away from business and toward teaching, non-profits etc.</p>
<p>LACs are most definitely not overrated. They can be absolutely perfect fits for the right student who benefits from the smaller environs and the constant opportunities to live and work closely with professors and other students in research and other activities. </p>
<p>LAC environments can be far superior to their larger, public counterparts as they can join great intelligence and great opportunity for meaningful hands-on experience, beginning in your freshman year. This difference should not be underestimated and does a lot for helping students develop intellectually and perhaps socially. </p>
<p>When contrasted with their private university peers, the advantages of the LACs are less clear as the size differential is reduced and the access to professors and resources is more similar. The choices between a LAC and a private university should take into consideration the culture at that private and how it treats its undergraduate students relative to its graduate students. </p>
<p>Outside of the classroom, the LAC experience differs even more with their public counterparts, but there are trade-offs. The number of opportunities for participation are numerous and highly varied and, in most cases, these colleges are small enough that the individual student can have a true impact on the organization and perhaps for several years. Such leadership posts can often be a highly valuable part of a student’s undergraduate experience and there is no question that such opportunities abound in the LAC world. </p>
<p>Potential drawbacks are the social life and the athletic life at a LAC. While some might prefer the intimacy of a smaller campus, there is no denying the fact that the breadth and depth of social opportunities at a smallish LAC is less (and maybe far less) than what you’d find at most larger universities, public and private. Athletic life is also different at LACs with greater opportunities for participation, but the social benefit of the athletic life is unquestionably a lot less than what you’d find at the true Division I athletic universities.</p>
<p>Not that I would care (I've already chosen where I am going), but what are some ultra-left and ultra-right LACs? Is the most right LAC still more liberal than the most left big university?</p>
<p>^
the "ultra" will be where people will be where people will disagree, but in the "ultra-right" I imagine you will get the religious colleges, Patrick Henry and Hillsdale, which are in no way more left than big unis. </p>
<p>The left and ultra lefts are well-known and aplenty. Are there any right of center? Some say Claremont McKenna, and some Southern LACs, I imagine. Any one want to add to that?</p>