Swarthmore v. the ivies

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
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<p>How does it compare? It's ranked the 2nd best liberal arts college, tied with Amherst.. would one receive as high a quality education (although different, I know) that is offered at the ivies? Also, how does it compare with other elite liberal arts schools?</p>

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<p>There are many who would argue--successfully, imo, but I'm a convert--that Swat and the other top Ivies will yield a better undergrad education for most students than most or all Ivies will.</p>

<p>I really really really urge prospective students to visit some of each. Columbia had been my D's #1 on paper. She wound up not even applying, though she did apply to H & Y and could tell you why. Didn't get in to either, was accepted at four very good LAC's, and is very happy and--to the point of your question--from what I can put together is getting an absolutely outstanding education.</p>

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<p>The ivies are all different from each other. Putting all of them together just because they happen to play sports in the same league is not reasonable. For example, Brown and Columbia are pretty different from each other. As is Dartmouth and Columbia or Cornell and Columbia.</p>

<p>Some ivies are actually LAC-like in terms of size and focus on undergraduate education. For example Dartmouth. </p>

<p>The question itself is strange. How does it compare? Well, in what respect? If you are looking for prestige, then you should apply to the ivies and don't worry about applying to these schools. Most are not well-known outside academic circles. And if you are a senior, it is pretty late in the game to apply here anyway.</p>

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<p>Good post, achat. You're kinder than I am about hypothetical pursuit of prestige.</p>

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<p>I didn't mean to offend anyone. I know it's superficial to assume that ivy leagues are better than other schools. I also know that Swarthmore is one of the best schools in the country. And I've already applied to Swarthmore; I was simply asking for some other opinions.</p>

6

<p>Swarthmore is for a paticular type of students. While HYP is for another...
US News' ranking is...well...:-(</p>

<h2>There really isn't a "better" one. It all depends on what fits your need.</h2>

<p>What you do not gain through Swarthmore:
1. Name recognition in the general society
2. NCAA Division I sports and rallies
3. The huge alumni networks in the big schools </p>

<p>What you do get:
1. A personalized and arguably an even better education than most of the Ivies
2. A close faculty-student/ student-student relationship
3. Recognition from the grad schools</p>

<p>Students from both types of school had some wonderful educational experiences.
LACs tend to be weak in engineering but Swat is the exception.</p>

<p>If you work hard, you can be successful at either one.</p>

7

<p>For the educational quality, Ivies win at:</p>

<ol>
<li>The student body is equally intellectual but MUCH bigger</li>
<li>The graduate school connection offers superb facilities for subjects like science.</li>
<li>In some cases, gradutate school connection gives more research opportunities</li>
</ol>

<p>Swarthmore wins at:</p>

<ol>
<li>A more personalized/small-class/TA-less academic experience</li>
<li>Close faculty-student relationship -> more out-class helps </li>
<li>Honors program </li>
</ol>

<p>In my opinion, Ivies are schools that have great incoming students and THUS yield great graduates as well. LACs like Swathmore also have great incoming students, but they change the students to even better people as they graduate. Well.. LACs like Swarthmore, Reed beat the Ivies to the ground in terms of graduate/ post graduate degrees earning per capita.</p>

<p>I love Swarthmore.</p>

8

<p>I am most familiar with the Ivy university in my home state, Massachusetts. It is, perhaps, the Ivy League school with least focus on undergrad education so it may not be a fair comparison.</p>

<p>From the standpoint of the "average" student, Swarthmore will provide a more intense academic experience, with more focus on academics by the student body, smaller class sizes, more personalized interaction with professors, no graduate school practice teachers, etc.</p>

<p>Swarthmore will also provide a much more cohesive, supportive,a nd friendly community.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Harvard will provide more opportunites for students in unusual or highly-specialized academic areas or for students who are so advanced they they have outstripped a normal college curriculum. </p>

<p>Harvard will also provide much more breadth and depth in extra-curricular activities. For example, Swarthmore's community service opportunites don't hold a candle to those available at Harvard. In fact, it could be argued that the resources available for extracurricular activities is Harvard's biggest strength, but that the student focus on these extracurriculars may be its biggest academic weakness. Of course, who is to say whether academics or extra-curriculars are more important?</p>

<p>I'm not sure that I could say that either is "better". That's a determination that really has to be made based on priorities of the individual student.</p>

<p>Personally, I favor the small liberal arts college for undergraduate studies because I think the focus on undergrads compared to that of a large research university provides better value. However, there are some students who would clearly be better served academically by the larger university and others who would just find a better social "fit".</p>

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<p>Just my personal opinion- I think that nowhere other than a few top LACs and maybe some private universities can you have this level of student/faculty interaction with such a high caliber faculty. For the same price as the elite universities, Swat gives you a responsive, helpful administration and faculty, small discussion based classes from early on in your college career. The biggest thing you sacrifice (I will acknowledge that there are others) by going to Swarthmore is, as penumbra put it, name recognition in general society. But grad schools and recruiters, I'm sure (well I hope anyway), know about Swat.</p>

10

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<p>RE Grad Schools: Swarthmore's reputation in academic circles is pure gold.</p>

<p>RE Recruiters: You would rather work for the ones that have heard of Swarthmore than the ones who haven't.</p>

11

<p>My D's 3 favorites came down to Princeton, Williams and Swarthmore. She applied ED to Princeton and was accepted. We both have a lot of respect for Swat but:</p>

<p>While ID always points Swat's 150 year impressive history in advancement of women, Princeton's president is a woman (and a physical scientist to boot) negating this alleged advantage to Swat. My D is a potential science major. Swat is run by male psych PhD.</p>

<p>Class size is approximately the same at Swat and Princeton (% under 20 per USNews) again negating the Swat advantage somewhat. Likewise the Junior and Senior thesis projects at Pton require ALL students to work one on one with faculty on research. Furthermore, Pton's many research institutes offer a wealth of opportunity for undergrad science research.</p>

<p>Socially, eating dinner for 4 years in one dining hall goes beyond a "close community" and borders on claustrophobic (may look like a ski lodge but is more cabin fever).</p>

<p>Different strokes for different folks. No right answer but we are happy with our choice. She wrote one helluva a Why Swat essay...too bad it will never be read.</p>

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<p>Only when you use an arbitrarily large number (like 20). A class with 20 students is exceptionally large for Swarthmore.</p>