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<p>I completely agree.</p>
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<p>And if the adult child’s goal is to be the best possible elementary special education teacher possible, that’s not OK, because teachers are only worthy of being looked down on?</p>
<p>My D2, a rising senior at one of the half-dozen top math and science high schools in the country, is seriously considering a career in secondary education. If that’s the choice she ultimately winds up making, I will be proud and honored - just as proud and honored as I am about D1, who is a very successful librarian.</p>
<p>First of all, the notion that teenagers know what they want to do in 20 years is for the most part laughable. Hobbies and EC’s can help show them what is involved, and take some of the la-la-land imagery out of the picture. In 1970something I thought computers were like in Startrek… A visit to the IBM 360 data center at my mother’s place of work took care of that…</p>
<p>Second, the notion that every kid is destined for greatness in any field he or she chooses is just as laughable. I can’t run a four minute mile, I can’t speak without a (relatively) heavy Euro accent, but I can kick rear end in Halo. Where’s my ticket to greatness, dude? In many fields success is whether you have the ‘sparkle’. Not necessarily the skills, those you can get. But the ‘sparkle’. </p>
<p>Would you take career advice to go into engineering or sciences “because everyone says it is OMG Hot and like the dudes can get $90k a year for coding HTML”? or would you take career advice from a practicing engineer who has worked in corporate America for 30 years and knows how to conjugate the verb “to outsource”?</p>
<p>Unless expected value has fallen out of favor in operations research, selecting a field of study or work is not difficult. Multiply the expected ‘payoff’ or salary of a profession with a few probability values (P(like it) * P(successful) * P(will be around in 20 years)) and see what you get. </p>
<p>I spent my teenage years building model airplanes. I was darned good at it. I was (and am) an aviation nut. So, it would be a no brainer to study aerospace engineering, right? Pfeh. I was 18 when I realized that the chances of getting a job in a field where a half dozen companies dominate the world market is zero (try getting a job as a cruise ship designer…) so I ended up in something more ‘useful’. Even my 2nd choice did not pan out. By the time I graduated my birth country needed few civil engineers. Got a job writing software and doing sales and tech writing. Liked the software so came here for more school, etc etc. Today’s teenagers can’t exactly get in a plane and fly to Armenia to work or study, and the word ‘outsourcing’ back then meant ‘use the outhouse’.</p>
<p>In other words, fellow parents, a lot of this really is just a major league reality check, and lots of flexibility.</p>
<p>“First of all, the notion that teenagers know what they want to do in 20 years is for the most part laughable”</p>
<p>-Both of mine knew in 8th grade. Although, D’s had to be modified. S. has pursue what he wanted at 14 and because he has pursued what he wanted he turned from “doing nothing because it is boring” HS kid to Dean’s list college student.<br>
But it is true that sometime we do not. I personally have listened tomy parents. So, I hated it. Not a biggy. Went back to school and changed my proffession in my mid 30th.<br>
We just need to understand that nothing is cut in stone. There are various ways to pursue whatever, maybe something that you even do not know about at all. People overcome tremendous difficulties. Family is important and maintaining good relationship with parents is more important than anything else.</p>
<p>I still think everyone should consider that teaching is a part time job. They essentially teach for less than 9 months of the year plus have two weeks at Christmas and a week over spring break plus myriad holidays. A $60,000 salary becomes a very reasaonable $80,000 if one were working full time ($60,000 divided by 9 and then multiplied by 12). No one seems to ever acknowledge this. Teachers have the gift of TIME with less money. If they want to make more money they can work during the summer instead of just taking that time off. I’m not dissing teachers, I’m just saying that they need to realize their salary is based on 9 months of work and comparing that to a 12 month job isn’t reasonable.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>It depends. Some teachers also teach in the summer, although they get compensated, and many teachers in charter schools have a much longer year. I think “part time” is an exaggeration. To me, part time is about 20 hours a week. Teachers often put in more than 8 hours a day when you factor in conferences, grading, lesson planning, etc. That’s full-time and sometimes more, for a majority of the year. But I would agree that the breaks are a perk of the profession and that it should be considered when discussing salary.</p>
<p>Average school year for a teacher is 180 days. For most workers it is 240 days net. So teachers work about 75% of a year. The effective annual pay based on $60K is $80K. Not great but not bad either.</p>
<p>$60,000 is well above the average public school teacher salary.</p>
<p>[Average</a> Public School Teacher Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help](<a href=“http://www1.salary.com/Public-School-Teacher-salary.html]Average”>Public School Teacher Salary | Salary.com)</p>
<p>It also very much depends on where you teach. In our small, rural district the average is about $42K. The longest-serving, masters-degreed teachers barely top $60K.</p>
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<p>With the new changes in the NYS state curriculum, especially at the high school level, every teacher I know is doing work over the summer, creating new lesson plans that align with the new standards. As for me, my school is moving into a new building and I was just able to pull the NYSESLAT results, to program my incoming 9th grade ESL students (all unpaid). In addition, I am writing recommendation letters for my rising seniors (again unpaid), no sitting on the beach sipping drinks with little umbrellas for me.</p>
<p>I would disagree with this statement especially if someone who has been in the workforce for a while (i would suspect that many of us have been in the workforce for a while). My last corporate job I had 30 vacation days 12 holidays 2 floater days and unlimited sick days. My current contract I work 185 days.</p>
<p>Does this 240 days count vacation? If we count 5 days a week * 52 weeks a year we come up with 260 days. If I take this number, back out my vacation, holidays and personal days (I was never late or absent during my corporate life), this leaves me working 216 days . 185/216 = 85.6 or 86%, definitely not a part time job.</p>
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<p>Is six weeks vacation typical in the corporate world? That seems a bit much for the typical job. I accrue three weeks a year. I get sick leave, but never really use much of it, because you’re supposed to be sick to use it.</p>
<p>My daughter has friends who are recent grads who are starting with 4 weeks vacation. I accrued 6 weeks vacation over time. Even corporate people I know who start out with 2 weeks vacation get 3 weeks after 5 years and 4 weeks after ten years.</p>
<p>How many of our kids really know what they will want to do when they are 17 and applying to college? Some, but probably not most. </p>
<p>Yes, it may have made good sense to go to a state school if this student had had a burning desire to be a high-school teacher at the time he was applying to colleges. (I have to read back and recall why I am thinking the OP is a he…I may be wrong!)</p>
<p>This was evidently not the case. So there he is, getting an education at a good school. Teaching high school does not mean he cannot go back for additional degrees at a later date should he so choose.</p>
<p>Our son’s American Lit teacher at a middling public HS was a grad from a very prestigious university.I thought it odd that I heard a couple comments along the lines of “he graduated from XXXX and he’s a teacher??!!” This from parents of his students who should, I think, have been pleased that this extremely well educated man followed his true passion and was teaching their kids.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>My son attended a math/science magnet for middle school. He had one amazing science teacher, who had an undergrad degree from Stanford and a law degree from a top law school. He decided to teach and was exceptionally good at it. He had another phenomenal science teacher who had been an emergency-room physician. When she unexpectedly lost her husband while her kids were young, she decided she needed a job with a schedule that would work better for her family’s needs, intending to go back to medicine later. She loved teaching so much that she never went back to medicine. I thought DS was incredibly lucky to have these two teachers.</p>
<p>Very few people in mgt level jobs take anywhere near the vacation time they have. I’d say most take about half of it.</p>
<p>[Need</a> a vacation? Many Americans don’t take them | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/09/us-work-vacation-idUSTRE6883DW20100909]Need”>http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/09/us-work-vacation-idUSTRE6883DW20100909)</p>
<p>Yes pay varies, and I am assuming you are in a suburban district near a major city. There are few jobs in low paying small towns to begin with and even lower paid teachers are among the best. Recall “Lost in America:” Where are the $100K jobs? Employment consultant laughs hysterically.</p>
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<p>You may not be sitting on the beach sipping pina coladas, but plenty of teachers are. And NONE should be, except during earned vacation time. Just like about everyone else who does not work for our government. </p>
<p>All of this seemingly volunteering and pro-bono activities would be rendered moot by abandoning this CBA extorted non-sense of 180+ days of work. Why don’t teachers ASK to align themselves to the work hours and requirements of the private sector if they are that great! </p>
<p>The bottom line is that you could shoot a machine gun through most high school buildings the day after school ends and not fear hitting any teacher. All this work that is supposed to be done at home should be done within the four corners of the school. Summer should be devoted to developing the curriculum, and perhaps study to reach a level sufficient to pass the tests their students do fail. And this should be required from all. And every year. </p>
<p>We are well past the time of allowing teachers to benefit from the impact of an agrarian system that has not existed for more than a century. Even if children should be educated 180 days a year, the professionals who deliver this education should have a full year that DOES deliver 180 days of education. All conferences, enrichment, professioal development, union business should be done outside those 180 days. And this should be done for the same annualized salary. Nor for extra compensation!</p>
<p>The only thing worst than the extended vacations and short working hours of the typical teacher is the callous attempts to make anyone believe it … ain’t so. All of us do know teachers and it is not hard to know when they work and when they do not. Most of them are not afraid to tell you about their work hours … because they believe it their RIGHT and that society owes them such sinecures.</p>
<p>Xiggi, if you think teachers are so lazy, self-serving and have it so great, perhaps you would like to become one! You make high school teachers sound like bank robbers. Why not work on having state legislatures extend the school year instead of cutting it like they are presently doing in many states.</p>
<p>Thank you for your suggestions! </p>
<p>Fwiw, did I say they were lazy and acted like bank robbers? Otoh, if you do not like my opinion that teachers should work and be paid for 12 months of work a year, I’d say to each his own!</p>
<p>I hope you find your summer enjoyable.</p>
<p>I think most teachers would agree that to work, and to be paid for, 12 months would be ideal. However, an increase in work days means teacher pay would have to increase as well. Teachers only get paid for the days they work, and inservice days count as work. Some of our district’s teachers and all the guidance counselors work all summer, but they are compensated for that work.</p>
<p>I’m personally annoyed with the number of days our kids don’t have school in the middle of the school year. Because our public school system is very diverse, we have every Christian and Jewish holiday off, as well as teacher work days at the end of every quarter, and half days off for conferences, inservice days, snow days etc. However, we still have 180 days of school, so we are usually still in school until June 20th, and school starts at the end of August. For high schoolers involved in sports and band, summer break is 2 weeks shorter than that.</p>
<p>Xiggi, my daughter just came off of three years of teaching. She worked in inner-city schools, one that was part of a district and then two years in a very high-performing charter school. She never left school until dinner time, and neither did anyone else, and was often there later than that. She still worked at home and she worked on weekends. Her kids made enormous gains, but the workload to produce those gains was intense. She stayed after school tutoring and didn’t get to lesson planning until all of that was over. She was constantly returning texts and taking calls from students and parents on her cell phone. Many charter schools do insist that teachers be available that way. Recently, our local papers have been reporting that charter schools have a high turnover rate of teachers. To a great extent, it’s because many charters impose more demands on teachers than traditional schools and it does create a burnout rate. I mention this because it’s important to remember that there are many teachers, both within traditional, charter and private schools who work insanely long hours. </p>
<p>I disagree with you that all work, e.g. lesson planning, should be done at home. There is no reason that working parents shouldn’t be able to lesson plan after their own kids are in bed, if they so choose, versus staying later at the campus. I do agree that professional development, etc. should be done at other times. </p>
<p>We don’t live in a country that is ready to put kids in school all year. Try starting a thread titled “Should kids go to school for 50 weeks out of the year?” and see what kind of response you get. Why blame the teachers for the fact that we, as a society, don’t want our kids in school all year?</p>
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<p>That is a result of policies that start with “It is what it is, and we can only make subtle changes.” The CBA negotiations, if one wants to give extortion a more pleasant twist, that led to this non-sensical fixed numbers of days will become a thing of the past. We should not have to align number of instructions days with number of days worked by teachers. </p>
<p>Teachers should be considered professionals who are compensated on an annual basis. Another option would be to base compensation by the hour of service in a classroom. Now, we have a hybrid model that makes less and less sense by the day.</p>