<p>After seeing results for last 10 Days it looks to me that Students who dont ask for any FA got in easily with slightly low scores and ECs as compare to Students who need FA but have higher Scores and Better ECs. Are other Parents observing the same or its just me. Does Adcom really knows about the Financial need of the students before they deliver the Results... Their are Ivies, then other Top 30 schools then Top 30-75 Schools. </p>
<p>It depends on the school. Some are need blind, some are not. I believe that the schools that say they are need blind are indeed, though. There is a useful list on Wikipedia that should schools that fall in the various categories of need blind and “meets need”. </p>
<p><a href=“Need-blind admission - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission</a> </p>
<p>That said, there are more to applications than test scores, GPA, and whether the applicant needs FA. Recommendations, essays, extra curriculars (some of them you may not know anything about, I know my kids had ECs that their classmates and parents of classmates were not really aware of), interview results, ethnicity (again… you may not know the full story there on some of your kid’s peers) all are a factor. </p>
<p>True need blind schools allow students to apply for FA after admission, like Yale. Schools that require students to submit FA application prior to decision are not true need blind. My kid’s school claims it’s need blind, but every year approximately 50% of kids are full pay every year.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not true. California State Universities require FAFSA filed for them with a deadline before when they guarantee having admission decisions out. But most of them admit purely by GPA and test score formula within capacity constraints by major, campus, state residency, and local residency, making them obviously need-blind.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oldfort, that could be because people with money obviously have the means to prep their kids more for admission to top colleges. So the kids who are full pay come in the door looking more qualified to start with. </p>
<p>OP: I haven’t believed in “need-blind” for more than a decade. Given two almost identical candidates, one full-pay and one needing FA - who do you think gets admitted? The candidates are more identical than not at most of these schools. At the very most competitive schools,where admissions is extremely selective and about “class-forming” that there may be very few cases where applying for FA really lessens one’s chances.</p>
<p>IMHO </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would not be surprised if both were admitted or rejected at most schools. Of course, many schools will come up short on financial aid, so the needy one may end up with a “financial rejection” (i.e. admitted, but the net price of the school is too expensive).</p>
<p>How do you know who has applied for financial aid and who hasn’t?</p>
<p>Don’t the adcoms know if a student has applied/used a fee waiver? A clear sign of high need.</p>
<p>@mathmom</p>
<p>No Scientific way to know but Students do post their Income Bracket and did they apply or not for any FA on CC under School Decision. But I agree we really dont know for sure did they apply for FA or not.</p>
<p>If how Adcom knows then their has to be something on the application to raised a Red flag for them. Or they can just walk to FA office and find out not sure they can do that legally …</p>
<p>^ I don’t know if they would know as the payment info may go to a different department. The fee waiver would identify students who have the most need, but there are families who might need significant FA who don’t qualify for them. I think there are other clues on an application, such as parent’s level of education and the type of EC’s a student has, home address and school. I don’t know how much of this is weighed in the decision.</p>
<p>I think if a student is exceptional, and has a fee waiver, that might get attention in a positive way, as this is a student who has overcome obstacles. </p>
<p>@mathmom I am pretty sure there are two questions on the CA, which were simple, but clear in its intent - something like “Are you planning on applying for need-based aid?”, and there was a second, “Are you applying for merit-based aid?” I remember having to clarify the difference for my DS, who had not a clue that he should skip those, but put merit for ones that award it for scores. Therefore, the adcoms can in one step separate into 50% need and 50% no-need.</p>
<p>Admissions can block those boxes from showing up on the applications they see. School that don’t require testing do this for SAT/ACT scores when the student has indicated they don’t want their scores used.</p>
<p>^^ Sure they can block, but do they is the question. </p>
<p>The essays of many students reveal a lot about their families’ financial situations.</p>
<p>Yes, they can block the info re: whether an applicant is applying for aid and yes, ignore their own perceptions of possible need in their reviews. There is so much that comes through on an app that can indicate whether the kid has what it takes for that college-- whether or not the SES info slips out (eg, in an essay.) For the competitive colleges that state need-blind, a good catch is a good catch; that’s more than ability to pay.</p>
<p>What is the alternative to trusting schools when they say they are need-blind or when they claim to meet 100% of demonstrated need? Short of mounting a public campaign to prove that they don’t, then exposing and embarrassing them, about all you can do is apply to different schools. Chances are, those other schools will be even more need-aware and give even less need based aid. Otherwise, they’d be making bold claims, too. </p>
<p>Suppose the adcoms do pick up on indications of a student’s income level. If they have a bias one way or another, why assume it favors the full-pay student? Most of the full-need, need-blind schools are rich institutions. They could afford to give even more need-based aid if only more well-qualified, low-income students applied.</p>
<p>^^ I am not saying I do not trust the adcoms, but the question really is how come the ratios of schools stay constant each year? Personally, I do not have a dog in this fight, but as a scientist, such a constant given the supposed need-blind statement is literally impossible to achieve unless something is being done to ascertain rather clearly, which family can pay what. </p>
<p>And, I repeat, just because they can hide the info, does not mean that they actually do, but it does not mean that they are not vowing to ignore it either. I just do not live in the world of because something can be done means it is being done. </p>
<p>Anyone can predict each year the ratio of full-pay to aid students of a school by looking at past years. Hum…lightning striking the same way each year? </p>
<p>But, it is obvious they must look somehow, as each school, no matter how rich, has but so much free money to dole out. No responsible accountant of a school is going to let them just accept any class without the numbers being able to work. I will believe need blind when all students can attend on aid, without consequence to admin decisions. Until then, some monetary income (ability to pay) distinctions must be taken to remain solvent. </p>
<p>Anyone interested, who can figure out how to search the site, can find excellent & well researched posts by mini on this topic. Some of the threads will be very old.</p>
<p>I understand how colleges can know or suspect. What I don’t get is how parents know. In obvious cases, sure. But mostly I only have a vague idea what my kids’ friends’ parents might earn. </p>