<p>Lets assume a student who has all the strong qualifications that the Ivy-bound C.C. students tend to have- strong grades, strong standardized test scores, strong EC's, strong essays and strong letters.</p>
<p>What is a really good safety for such a student? </p>
<p>I mean a school that would be a combination of "really good"(i.e, will provide a top quality educational experience) and "really safe" (i.e, has a high admit rate for a good student).</p>
<p>Any suggestions?</p>
<p>State College’s Honors program.</p>
<p>It really depends on the student and where they are from. It’s hard to give “universal safeties.” In many cases, I would agree with Taggart–state college honors programs are often underrated. People assume that you can’t get a good education there, when you really can (in most cases). Of course, some states are better than others.</p>
<p>Sometimes (if you’re a girl–there aren’t many all-male colleges left) you can apply to all-women’s colleges, which often have higher acceptance rates than co-ed schools of equal caliber. Of course, I wouldn’t say Wellesley or Barnard are real “safeties” but there are good women’s colleges out there that have fairly high acceptance rates.</p>
<p>Also, some colleges may be safer because of their location. Like, two colleges of equal caliber might have very different acceptance rates if one is in, say, Kansas, and the other is in California or New England.</p>
<p>Are you asking generally or are you looking for specific colleges? Does it matter if the safety is in Georgia or Montana? Also, how “safe” should a safety be? (are you looking for an acceptance rate of over 40%? or 50? or 75?) Just curious.</p>
<p>Also, try this link–I think it gives some very good schools with higher acceptance rates: <a href=“http://www.coplac.org/liberal_arts/OffBeatenPath.txt[/url]”>http://www.coplac.org/liberal_arts/OffBeatenPath.txt</a></p>
<p>Taggart, I agree, some state schools are great for their residents. But not all states are good.</p>
<p>poetrygirl, That is a great list. Thank you for the link.</p>
<p>In answer to your question, what I am looking for first and foremost is “really good”. The way I see it, if you are going to spend 4 years of your life (and a lot of money) getting a college education, why should you not make sure it is top quality education?</p>
<p>As for how “safe” it needs to be, I don’t know. I frankly do not think the world would come to an end if a student failed to get an acceptance at any school. Couldn’t he/she just take a ‘gap year’ and then reapply (to a different set of colleges) the following year?</p>
<p>Sure. Though most people probably would try transferring in from a community college.</p>
<p>And I probably don’t know the meaning of a “safety”, I mean, this is how I mentally broke down my college list (my stats are available):</p>
<p>Reach: Harvard (R), Yale (R), UPenn-Wharton (ED to Huntsman-Deferred; R), Cornell AEM (R), Dartmouth (A), Duke (R), Amherst (R), Williams (R)
Match: Northwestern (A)
Safety: Rutgers Honors (A), Vanderbilt (A), Rice (A), Emory (W)</p>
<p>A lot of people probably would consider me arrogant for considering my safeties “safeties.” With the exception of Rutgers, the rest aren’t particularly “safe” by common standards. I basically applied for only the schools I wanted to attend without regret – there’s a risk you have to take there.</p>
<p>Specific Schools?
Well if you live in Texas(assmuing he or she makes top 10%)… A&M and UT…
if you live in CA… makes top top 4% (?.. CA residents…help?)… garunteeded admission to at least one UC.
Maybe some other 2nd pedistal(or a low 1st) state universities like MSU, A&M, UC(R, I, D, SB, SC, and M), ASU, Colorado- Boulder, Florida State, VTech, Tennessee, etc…
Maybe Lower tier Private schools like SMU, Samford, Howard, TCU, Clemson… etc…
It depends…
What the posters above have is ok too…</p>
<p>Taggart, that is pretty smart to apply to so many reach schools, worked for you. I agree, the ‘safeties’ you mention would get insulted to be counted as safeties! But they are all great schools. Even Rutgers Honors. Congratulations!</p>
<p>Also, not all state universities’ honors programs are safeties–the university might, but not the honors program.</p>
<p>I would look at the sticky on good merit aid schools in the Financial Aid forum. Many of those schools are trying to lure good students, give good scholarships, have honors programs, and are rigorous. DD1 was a NMF, is attending a top 65 school and is loving it.</p>
<p>I don’t think I would personally use Vandy, Rice, and Emory as safeties, but it looks like it worked for you. State honors colleges are good options, as are local LACs that don’t attract a large number of out-of-state applicants. A good measure of a safety is the median test score range. If you are well above the 75th percentile, the school is likely a safety. By well above, I mean at least 50 points per section on SAT or 4 composite points on ACT. If the school has a high range, that can be harder to predict, but it tells you where you stand.</p>
<p>Any larger university that doesn’t rank high could also be used as a good safety, because though admission may be easier, there are more students that can offer the Ivy-like experience. A good education is also more likely because of the diversity of courses and majors.</p>
<p>Safeties are specific to each student’s qualifications and each student’s preferences. State residence does matter; State U is the presumed safety for my oldest son. I think that “a student who has all the strong qualifications that the Ivy-bound C.C. students tend to have- strong grades, strong standardized test scores, strong EC’s, strong essays and strong letters” can treat some of the arguably top-25 universities or liberal arts colleges as solid match colleges. See if any college of interest has a rolling admission process or a nonbinding early action round, and apply soon enough to get an early answer.</p>
<p>I can not say that these are going to be much easier to get into but Swarthmore, Haverford, Williams, Amherst, and Pomona are all second tier schools. They are almost as tough as the ivy’s. Most people that do not get into an ivy but were qualified go to these schools. But sometimes turning down UPENN or Brown for Swarthmore or Amherst is the norm.</p>
<p>If you want really safe safety schools for an Ivy bound student… I would say schools like Rutgers, NYU, Notre Dame, etc.</p>
<p>Rutgers89: It’s going to be harder to get into Amherst etc. than Cornell…
First off, those LACs are NOT second tier. Secondly, they are usually looking for slightly different qualities in an applicant than the ivies. </p>
<p>I would say that you really need to look at what makes you happiest in a college. After having been accepted to many colleges, with money notwithstanding, I picked my safety school, St. Olaf College. Even though I am not religious, I loved the strong moral code that many of the students had. They offered a very interesting freshman/sophomore writing program and I felt as though the professors really cared about each and every one of the students. While it was a perfect place for me, I wouldn’t recommend this school to everyone. Another one of my safeties, Ohio-Wesleyan, is also not at the top of the USNWR list, but has a wonderful zoology program, which was very interesting. I decided against there because of the partying attitude, but that wouldn’t bother everyone.</p>
<p>In the last COFHE survey, Harvard ranked 27th out of 31 member schools in student perceptions of academic quality and quality of campus life. In other words, among the COFHE schools (prestige private colleges and universities), there were 26 schools providing better overall educations. Add in non-COFHE schools, and there are dozens more. </p>
<p>Once one takes the prestige blinders off, it shouldn’t be hard for virtually ANY student to find a safety school at which s/he would feel comfortable, challenged, and receive a great education.</p>
<p>^^ mini, you are referring to ‘student perceptions’. I don’t think that it automatically follows that the 26 schools ranking higher are providing ‘better overall education’ than Harvard. And while I agree that one must not wear ‘prestige blinders’, the fact is that prestige needs to be considered in the mix of multiple factors that go into the selection process.</p>
<p>One of the concerns about attending a less selective college by choice is that the other students may not all be as enthusiastic about their educational experience as yourself. Even if you find a safety whose facilities, courses and teachers at are as good as Harvard, what are the students going to be like? Isn’t it a huge part of the college experience- who else you go to school with?</p>
<p>“^^ mini, you are referring to ‘student perceptions’. I don’t think that it automatically follows that the 26 schools ranking higher are providing ‘better overall education’ than Harvard.”</p>
<p>Well, I do. As far as surveys go, this is likely the best one out there. Obviously, regardless of facilities, courses, teachers, AND fellow students, Harvard students (in 2003 - the new survey done this year isn’t out, and won’t be made public in any case), Harvard students perceived that they do NOT receive the best overall education. Who, exactly, is in a better position to judge?</p>
<p>There’s a heavy regional skew in college admissions: application rates tend to be highest, and acceptance rates lowest, in the Northeast. If your student is willing to go to the Midwest, there are some outstanding schools with high acceptance rates, like Grinnell College in Iowa, ranked #11 LAC by USN but with a 45% acceptance rate. Oberlin (#20 LAC) is a little better known but it still has a relatively high 34% acceptance rate. Macalester (#26 LAC) has a 39% acceptance rate. Even Carleton, ranked #5 LAC by USN, has a 32% acceptance rate, almost double that of some of its northeastern peers. And for a true Midwestern safety, St. Olaf (#54 LAC) has a 51% acceptance rate. </p>
<p>A similar pattern applies at the University level. USN ranks the University of Chicago #9 among national universities, but its acceptance rate of 38% is double, triple, or even quadruple that of its Northeastern peers. Among the publics, the University of Michigan is usually considered among the very best but its acceptance rate is over 40%, and the University of Wisconsin is not far behind academically but has an acceptance rate of almost 60%. </p>
<p>In my judgment all these schools are badly “undervalued” in the college application/admissions market, disadvantaged by geography; if they were located in the Northeast, their acceptance rates would probably be half, or less, of their current level. But if getting into a really good school is more important than being in the Northeast, you should give these schools serious consideration.</p>
<p>mini,
I’ve tried to Google the C0FHE survey but haven’t been able to find it. Can you provide a link? Thanks.</p>
<p>You can’t find it because part of the COFHE agreement is that they won’t publish the data. However, some of it was leaked, and published in the Crimson (and the Boston Globe) in 2003 - I’ve posted the links previously, so you can either search this site for them, or do a Google on the Crimson.</p>
<p>My favorite for such a student would be UMich. I would get out that app early, and because of its rolling policy, your student could get an answer as early as October. It’s a great school–do visit it. It also leaves the single choice EA and ED programs open for kids.</p>