I wish students would stop over-emphasizing “balanced life”(the definition of it varies from person to person, but seems to have manifested itself as code for something else at elite schools). This is true at most elite privates or publics except for perhaps the most rigorous of them and perhaps among the students in the most rigorous programs at those schools. If they want to make a comparison with such a claim, they should just be honest and say that whatever competitor schools are known to be more competitive or intense (and thus less “traditional”)and thus maybe have more of a bias toward students engaging with opps and orgs related to their academic interests which is not the pattern preferred by those attending the “more balanced” school. It often has little to do with EC offerings and opps (clubs and stuff). They all have a number of clubs comparable to some public schools. The differences in atmosphere are arise from which types students tend to join.
@bernie12 not really sure what you’re trying to say. For high school, I go to a science-focused school that doesn’t have sports and basically only has science clubs, and I don’t like it at all, so I wanted a change. Yes, you can have balance wherever you go, but some schools foster balance more than others. Very few schools have the high level sports and interesting city Vanderbilt does combined with one of the best educations you can get, which in itself provides balance. It’s not about myself wanting balance, because I would make balance for myself anywhere, but it’s about the culture of balance, which at my current school is looked down upon.
Ohm…, It’s fair to say Vandy like other peer U’s seeks to create a diverse student body through its holistic “class building” process. Yes, some students will have a hook that may help in the admission process. Many well qualified students will not gain admission. Yes, hooks may create an advantage to some students which of course means others are placed at a slight disadvantage. The same is true of other peer U’s. Its the way it is everywhere.
At Harvard for example 15% of spots go to legacy (mostly white), 15% to athletes (not many minority water polo, fencers, crew, or squash players out there), 10% to international students, and 55% to minorities students. So if you are a white kid from the midwest hoping to get in with academics… good luck, there are only 100 spots open.
As for culture these things take time to change but today’s VU is changing. Vanderbilt is still attractive to students seeking a well balanced college experience and the ADCOM does look for evidence of this in its admission process. For example 100% of incoming students held major leadership positions, received significant awards, or excelled in the fine arts. 100% not 99%. In student surveys VU has the happiest students in the county, a 97% freshman retention rate, and they report an excellent quality of life.
Keep in mind when reading minority enrollment percentages that Asian is a minority but is not given preference in admission.
I got into vandy early decision (no hook or outstanding stats) and Ive become Facebook friends with many other potential students. I’m very liberal and involved in politics myself, but many of the other people in the class of '20 have posted in support of Rubio and Cruz, and even one for Trump. There also seems to be a very strong Christian and crazy-horse-obsessed-girl presence as well, which I had forgotten about after moving from Iowa to Rhode Island. Vanderbilt is very diverse politically and ethnically, which is why I applied early decision and I’m unbelievably excited to attend.
Side note, LGBT people are not given admissions preference as there is no place on the common app to identify your sexuality or trans status.
Perhaps the answer lies in facts more than a few friends:
- Minorities represent 33.5% of the student body
- 52% are from the South and Midwest
- 97% first-year retention rate (maybe Princeton Review’s assertion of the happiest students isn’t far off)
- 91.3% of students are in the top 10% (of schools that rank)
- 11.7% admit rate (RD is lower. This is skewed by higher ED rate.)
- Approximately half of the class is filled binding ED (so Vanderbilt is a top choice for at least 1/2 of the students)
- 100% of their ED accepted students have multiple honors or significant leadership roles
The bottom line is Vanderbilt is very competitive for everyone, regardless of race/orientation. They do seem to be making an effort to increase diversity in many areas, but the stats demonstrate that diversity and achievement aren’t mutually exclusive.
BTW-My daughter, and several of her friends, were accepted and fit the stereotype you prefer–white, straight, southern and affluent. You didn’t say affluent, but “genteel,” which to me seems pretentious and code for PLU (not saying you meant it that way, but perhaps your comments were perceived as offensive and resulted in what you also perceive as offensive replies). One of her friends who was accepted is a minority, and Valedictorian, who despite her race has more in common with them than not. I think I feel the opposite of you: I prefer my children be exposed to more diversity.
Well-said, @twicearound. Completely agree.
@collegebobollege : However, there are certain students (one being a friend of mine) who also attended a science school who wish that the same atmosphere at the science HS contributed a decent amount to the atmosphere at Vandy (insert any school that may not be known to have any sort of “geek” culture at all) as opposed to it being primarily the more “stereotypical” experience. He apparently misses that element of his HS. I was alluding to the idea that balanced is often code for “is more stereotypical and lacks the blatantly nerdy or intellectual sub-cultures often found at similar schools” (basically everyone is “cool” and “normal” and is there largely for the social experience). I’m arguing that balance encompasses the traditional college experience you see in the media plus the other sub-cultures (which are often portrayed in the media as well, though lesser so). Most schools except for STEM focused universities are going to have the so called balance you are looking for (especially D-1 schools). Some will just be more academically intense or more oriented toward a certain vibe than others. I’m arguing that this concept of balance is almost too vague and gets thrown around too loosely. Most top private institutions can describe themselves as balanced.
I just worry when balanced basically means “is more of a party school than others” to certain people. I’m almost certain that it serves as code for that when coming out of some people’s mouths.
I think the reason you took some grief for your post is that you strongly imply that these students are getting admitted and/or receiving scholarships mostly because of their status as minorities, LGBT, etc. You do not know that to be true at all. You especially mischaracterized the Tulane situation. As @collegebobollege astutely pointed out, the award he received (the DHS) was one of 75 given for full tuition plus fees from Tulane. A small error in the post is that there are 50 additional full tuition scholarships given by Tulane, not 100 (the PTA is the other award). And a small technicality, neither the DHS not the PTA are the highest scholarships at Tulane, which is how you characterized it. Tulane gives 5 Stamps and 2 Hainkels (the latter Louisiana residents only) which are chosen from the 75 DHS winners. These are full ride scholarships with additional stipends. So in total Tulane gives 68 + 50 = 123 full tuition awards, plus about another 10 for international students only (Global Scholarship). That’s a very different picture than you made it out to be.
As far as the recognition as compared to other DHS recipients, that is because there were write-ups in his local paper about it. http://www.sunherald.com/news/local/education/article62564552.html That is the job of local papers, to highlight local things that are newsworthy. And despite the impressive gains by the LGBT community in the last decade, IMO such a story remains newsworthy as compared to someone winning the award for excellent but less brave projects. A high school student that is known by his fellow students to not only be gay but to perform in drag on a regular basis? That cannot be without risk, I don’t care where you go to high school. But more to the point, you completely neglect that this student has stats that put him in the top 1-2% in the country, as all the winners of these awards must be to qualify. Only about half or a little less end up at Tulane because they also get accepted to HYPS, etc. and sometimes choose those schools and/or win similar scholarships at other top schools. Your diminishing of this student by focusing on his sexual identity and completely ignoring the possibility and reality of his academic prowess naturally led others to cry “foul”.
Just wanted to clear that up, and I think you should look at your post that started this as objectively as you can and think about how it came across.
I’d just like to say I have 2 daughters (one recent grad) and a current student there. They are/were VERY happy at VU and neither were in a Panhellenic sorority. One was invited to join an honors fraternity, the other is in a STEM sorority for women in science and engineering, and also a service fraternity. They lead very full lives, and are/were extremely active on campus. We are “white-bread, middle class, middle TN” people. While there are a large number of girls who look like them, their friends do not all look like them! They have friends who are gay, black, Asian, bi-sexual, Indian, Jewish, Christian, Atheist, Catholic, etc. They are more liberal, more grounded in their views politically, personally and professionally than they were when they entered college (I should hope most college kids are!). In fact, they don’t like coming home to our small community because it’s feels so backwards to them now. Vanderbilt is a microcosm… while there is southern charm to the city, it’s a thriving intellectual environment where students seem to genuinely care about their studies and the people around them. At least that’s my perception. They both realize that with 29,000 people applying they were VERY lucky to get in, and have made the most of their experiences. If genteel southern charm is a big selling point, and a huge greek life, Ole Miss or Alabama may be more well-suited for you daughter.
I feel like Vanderbilt has a strong dichotomy: (mostly) white frat guys/sorority girls, and other campus groups defined by multiculturalism and diversity. That being said, the latter tends to be swept to the side a lot and viewed with disgust by a lot of people (the whole bag of poop on the black cultural center situation was a prime example of this. To elaborate, a blind girl accidentally left her guide dog’s feces on the doorstep of the black cultural center, I believe, and a multicultural student organization got very upset about it. When it was revealed it was an accident, people starting attacking that organization for “overreacting” and “attacking the blind girl”. I personally thought their reaction was justified, and likely fueled by the campus attitude towards diversity, but you may make of that situation what you will).
Of course, I am considering transferring out, so if you’d like to label me a jaded gdi (not an uncommon accusation around these parts), I understand that. I would be more than happy to answer any questions anyone has, and I will try to do so as impartially as I can, but my final piece of advice here would be: exercise caution in picking Vanderbilt; I argue that its ostensible qualities, those seen at first glance, are not in agreement with the true nature of the school. I actually had a lengthy conversation with one of my professors who wrote me a letter of recommendation about that very topic…
@welphereigo : I’ve never heard of gdI (what is that?). Also, My guess is that most people are comfortable (much more than comfortable) with how Vanderbilt is now and also, the issues you cite may become less of a problem as Vanderbilt diversifies ethnically. Sounds like it is having growing pains so to speak. Other schools diversified more quickly when they became selective and Vanderbilt is doing so more slowly so the growing pains phase is kind of surfacing now…but it doesn’t seem to affect that many students as you can’t be constantly claiming in surveys that they are so happy with the experience.
I suppose it depends on what you’re looking for. If one wants more of an emphasis on multi-culturalism but with the sense of school pride/spirit Vanderbilt has, then you’d generally be more interested in places like NU, Duke, Cornell, USC, and top publics like Berkeley or UCLA, and maybe many other Ivies (I’m trying to stick to places with engineering though and places with the more “rah rah” feel. Seems most Ivies have much less of that despite being D-1 and are more intellectual and put time into other non-sports or Greek related traditions).
@bernie12 GDI is essentially a student who’s not a frat or a sorority.Growing pains isn’t a bad way to put it. I feel that Vanderbilt is in a transitory phase – the institution recognizes that the obsession with Greek life, impedes the development of Vanderbilt into an intellectual powerhouse. That’s why recently many of the fraternities have been put on probation and there is talk of kicking off several of them. But much of the student body opposes this, because it seems to be defined by smart kids who want to ‘get lit’, prioritizing parties to intellectual development. Once again, don’t get me wrong: statistically speaking, and in my own experiences, there are some brilliant kids here; unfortunately, the ambition of the student body does not align with intellectualism. Recently, I had a conversation with a kid who does really well in his courses, but he seems to really dislike learning; he’s just there for the grade. Whereas I desire a school where students care deeply about their studies, students here are career oriented --do what it takes to get the grade to get to the grad school/job.
Furthermore, I don’t feel school spirit at Vanderbilt, at least not in the sense that I anticipated it or understood what it meant. I don’t see school spirit as just going to sports games, but I view it in the sense of community, something I truly found at my high school. It may be because I’m living on the commons (don’t get me started on what a poor idea I think that is), but I feel like I’m in a stereotypical high school, not an intellectual community.I’m doing my very best to give an unbiased opinion, but obviously I haven’t enjoyed my experience, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
@welphereigo One drawback (if you want more of an intellectual community) of going to an elite private school is the amount of pre-professionalism, but I suppose some schools are better at encouraging students to be more intellectual or at least be happily nerdy than others. And yes, like you, at my school, I too have met the people who are great at making the grades, but really enjoy getting them easily (so were first and foremost schedule manipulators…would ensure it had only 1 challenging course at a time or would ensure that the supposedly challenging course was with an easier instructor), but fortunately there was and is a decent stronghold of students who enjoyed the joys and even the “struggle” of learning (recently ran into a girl I tutor who claimed she enjoyed the very difficult exam she took on Thursday in her ochem course, and she isn’t the only that felt that way). Honestly, I think the faculty play a huge role in creating the community you speak of. Some of the best teachers are often the most rigorous so students find a way to band together and get through it and find an appreciation for the high level at which they are being pushed along the way (my guess is that at some schools, students are less tolerant or receptive to that scenario but at most elites, students should be as long as the teaching is indeed solid). Some of my STEM teachers were a cult in and of themselves due to the way they ran their class, the difficulty of assignments and exams they wrote, and the mentoring they did with students.
They made it hard such that most students had to resign to the fact that they wouldn’t make an A (or even a B+ for that matter), yet could still walk out of the class with lots of skills and knowledge (sometimes the instructors would flat out say, “do the best you can, but sit back and enjoy learning it”). They also developed certain traditions and special characteristics of their courses.
Noticeably, instructors that didn’t have such high bars (usually the STEM instructors that were powerpoint whores or where you just has to pretty much intake and recall lots of content) or induced such community or humility, we tended to just stick to working on our own and focusing on the grade. You may want to try finding the instructors there that create environments like the one I mention as it brings out a different side in students that you may like. And honestly, those are the types of classes I made long time friends with and took courses with later (being even mildly successful in such classes made you more confident about advanced courses and made you want to learn more or apply the knowledge elsewhere). It’s often all about the track you put yourself on and sometimes it takes a little time to find the right one. Generally, carefully chosen instructors is a start to find those students you think are missing. Simply finding the well-respected instructors that are not so because they are just easy/“fair” is a start.
As for schoolspirit: Don’t really know much about it in the traditional sense. My guess is that you indeed have a different idea of what it is versus other students at the school. As far as this goes, I’m wondering if you should even be at a D-1 school (maybe a WUSTL or a JHU type of place is more fitting as they are D-3’s with engineering and many of the D-3s don’t have rah rah but are known for a different kind of community feel that those looking for rah rah don’t see, but those maybe more interested in multi-culturalism would be interested in. They also more than retain the academic intensity you want/need) to be honest.
I don’t believe being preprofessional or career oriented and intellectual are mutually exclusive. Yes these students must play the GPA game and don’t have the academic freedom many of their peers enjoy to take classes that may place their GPA at risk. Most pre-prof students are actively involved in research projects and many will publish literature during or shortly after college. Being an introvert or happy nerd may be a disadvantage to their career goals which often value extroverts with strong interpersonal and public speaking skills.
Greek organizations get a lot of publicity about social issues but tend to have higher academic success, are overrepresented in university leadership positions, have higher retention, higher graduation rates, raise more money for charities, have stronger connections to their university, and fewer feelings of lonliness than their non-Greek peers. VU has also started a residential housing system which offers another opportunity for students to connect with their peers which is a good thing. They seem to be decreasing the Greek influence on campus. There is also a great deal of data showing the advantage of Commons like housing for freshman to help students transition to college and to increase retention. I certainly understand it may not work for all students and I would favor more options for freshman.
Vandy also keeps 85% of its students living on campus which helps create an academic community that many peer U’s don’t have as students live off campus.
@bud123 : They definitely are not as I suggested. Most private schools are VERY pre-professional,(HYPSMCh, and all of the super elites are notorious for feeding into medicine, law, and finance, and now Tech…yet most have very high levels of intellectual vitality that is a large part of the social scene) especially the elites. Some schools are just naturally more intellectual and nerdy than others and that can have to do with a conglomerate of things (that mostly have to do with the past development of the school, intensity of some of the programs, and the selection scheme).
Greeklife is less polarizing as long as it doesn’t create noticeable stratification in social or intellectual life or start to impact academic climate (at most elites, the effect is not as big as it is elsewhere but places like Dartmouth have had issues apparently, as have other places). I guess the question is whether the school is such that Greek life is its own huge bubble or if there are merely students in Greek life who don’t separate it from what other orgs they participate in. At schools with a huge Greek dominance or influence, often there is a high amount of linkage to only a few other orgs (such as student government whose elections can turn into a popularity contest) which can cause resentment or concern. It’s kind of like: “Greek is just another one of my affiliations” versus "It is my primary affiliation and my presence in these other things is at least somewhat linked to our desire to lobby for the Greek orgs:. Note that many students at Duke, for example, have expressed concerned about such stratification whether it was real or perceived. The fact is that even the perception that they receive special treatment or “are taking over” (or act as a monolith in anyway) brings discomfort.
Also, note that “academic community” is more than just having folks live on campus together. The fact that they live together does not necessarily mean that they learn together(other than from ECs and non-academic social experiences). It matters much more what students are doing inside and outside of the classroom besides non-academic socializing. Things like frequent and sizable research symposium (for undergrads),academic events and competitions targeting undergraduates often function as forms of academic socialization that get students to discuss their research or scholarly ideas(or simply something cool they learned in a class) with each other. More informal venues for that are also effective (I hear the Commons is decent at that, but I haven’t heard much about this in later years and most schools struggle with shared experiences beyond the 1st year. Vanderbilt has themed halls and some specific types of learning communities for upperclassmen, so that is helpful). Many would also successfully argue that the design of various spaces determines a lot about how students interact and what they discuss (like if you put whiteboards in lots of relatively open spaces in buildings on campus…it will at minimum foster collaboration and will certainly set a more academic tone than otherwise in that space).
It’s true that Vanderbilt does have lots of people involved in Greek life, but as a commenter mentioned, it’s very regulated by the administration, and Vandy’s Greek life is hardly comparable to those at bigger state schools. Greek life is an easy way to expand your social circle, but it’s not the only way. Greek life can seem a ~bit~ polarizing during recruitment season, formals, frat parties (for non-Greek guys) etc, but apart from that, there isn’t much of a social barrier because you always get to interact with different people through classes, student organizations, and residential halls, especially Commons and other living-learning communities. People have friends both in and out of Greek life because we’re all Vandy students after all and have much in common.
As for academic and intellectual community, Vandy does follow its work hard, play hard motto quite well, so even though we may not have an overwhelmingly “intellectual atmosphere”, I don’t think that’s a detriment. There are tons of events on campus, from discussions on effective altruism to financial markets, from cultural identity to free speech, all facilitated by students and notable guest speakers such as Nobel prize winning economists to eminent journalists. The Speakers Committee is getting Spike Lee, activists from BLM, and John Boehner all within the same week in March, and such events help students like me learn more about the world from different, even polar opposite perspectives, and have meaningful discussions with peers. These can happen in a casual setting too. My former roommate loves politics, and her enthusiasm encouraged me to explore it more deeply than I had before. We often had discussions/debates about it with a few of my hall-mates at 1 am at night! My current roommate is a music minor, and through her (and Blair) I have been able to learn so much more about classical music, its techniques, history, and influence in a way I hadn’t when I took piano lessons.
It may seem that parties dominate the social scene, but if you’re looking for a veritable intellectual conversation, it’s right there. Sometimes you need to take an extra step and reach out to people, but it’s all right there: people in your classes, students orgs, hall-mates, and professors. I understand that it may seem that all anyone cares about is grades and not really enjoying the academic material, but that’s a very superficial and hasty way of judging all Vandy students. I completely agree with @bud123 when he/she says that being preprofessional or career oriented and intellectual are not mutually exclusive.
what is “overwhelmingly intellectual”? I know there are some schools like Brown (this one is surprisingly less pre-professional than other Ivies) known for snobby intellectualism (and some people really don’t like that), but most other schools with more apparent intellectual atmospheres are simply known for having larger numbers of undergraduates attend speaking events (successful Tedx events for example that have a UG/student component incorporated), and other intellectually related events on campus without a grade incentive (IE, there is less need to reach out because it is a natural disposition among a larger chunk). They also develop many more traditions that air on the nerdier side of things. They are also known for spontaneity of things like random acts of theater (plays) breaking out in relatively public venue (like a lawn). I wouldn’t consider it overwhelming. It is just a matter of fact that such expressions are more normalized on such campuses. MIT has its “hacking” culture (where one time they managed to get a firetruck on top of a building somehow). Basically at these campuses, they party, but also have interesting traditions to I guess strut their intelligence or nerdy side in a fun way (MIT also has a day where they apparently build things like slides and stuff). Both Harvard and MIT have their housing culture (for sophomores at H, it is more like the Housing games) traditions which often result in each hall making sometimes over the top but amazing videos that show off their residence halls (basically advertisements).
It manifests itself in different ways at different schools in many informal ways which is I guess expected at all of these schools full of smart folks (sometimes having fun involves activities that use your brain, whether you are completely sober or not). At my school, we even had(it still has it) some weird traditions on the brainier side. At many schools, “intellectualism” can manifest itself as entrepreneurship (as it does at Stanford and many other schools) as well. There are so many different forms of it that no one should be particularly uncomfortable with it being integrated with or even taking away from the traditional “work hard, play hard” culture that basically all these places claim to have. If anything, it makes social life and campus life a little more varied and random at times. I guess at a lot of schools, the nerdy (I am not using this as derogatory here, in fact the opposite) side of the school is just more “in your face” and again, doesn’t need discovery or isn’t something you stumble upon fortuitously.