After visiting 15+ schools, my S24 has decided to ED to Dartmouth, a school we never got to visit.
We found our impression of colleges we did visit was so highly dependent on the tour guide. Schools we loved we might have hated with a different guide and vice versa. S24’s conclusion was that as long as the academics and location (didn’t want urban) were a good fit, he felt he could find his people anywhere.
Just wondering how common it is to ED to a school you haven’t seen.
Not an ED parent but I wouldn’t do it.
I agree - a tour guide can make or break a visit.
But you still need to feel good about the environment.
My daughter was stoked about a few schools and it was covid, and all but one were self toured- James Madison - took it off after visiting. Elon (we had an info session with 3 families and a 1:1 tour which was excellent…and she thought up front it would be a home run - took it off after visiting because while it was great, it was too isolated for her. Denver - took it off after visiting. Miami Ohio - applied, got good merit, in her mind was a top contender - took it off after visiting.
It’s not just the campus but the surrounds - some want urban, some want hiking trails, some want a place to get a slice of pizza at night or a close walk to the dorm, etc.
Sure, you might get lucky. I didn’t ED but and it was 30+ years ago, I went to my college sight unseen. No online tours, no online images -just a brochure.
But - if you have the resources, given it’s a four year gamble - and you want to make sure you do your best to assure the decision is the best one given the info you have. You can’t do that with ED - it’s very possible a student arrives and does not like it at all.
Best of luck no matter what you decide.
There are obviously a variety of reasons, not least cost, that people cannot necessarily visit every college, or indeed maybe no colleges, except perhaps for ones very nearby. I think if you are visiting some at all, it makes sense to try to visit any potential ED school, but sometimes that might not work out.
In cases like that, I would certainly try to do virtual visits, virtual live sessions, read student newspapers and blogs, maybe look at comments on college review sites, and so on.
But if you do all that sort of thing and feel really excited about your ED school, and it is also comfortably affordable and you don’t need to compare aid offers, then OK, I think that can be fine.
@HelicopterParent1 is your student familiar with the area around Dartmouth, the weather, etc? Does he know enough about this college to feel confident he will be happy there if accepted…and is it affordable for your family?
How far from home is Dartmouth…one or two states away, or across the country? In the Thumper family, we didn’t allow our kids to apply to far away schools at all without first visiting.
I personally would want my kid to visit before applying ED, but this is a call your student can make…as long as he understands that if accepted, he will be expected to accept that offer of acceptance.
This seems to suggest that the visits were not planned in terms of what specifically to look for, resulting in being mostly influenced by random aspects like the quality of the tour guide. I.e. the visits may not have added much value to your student’s choice (although if planned better, they may have added more value).
Dartmouth has a reputation of being more of a “fit” school in social terms than many others, due to its very high fraternity and sorority participation and “wet” reputation. There are also unusual aspects about its academic calendar (quarter system with 3 “large” courses per quarter, D-plan). Also, engineering students who want an ABET-accredited degree are likely to need more than four academic years (12 quarters).
Thanks for all the comments.
He’s a very emotionally - not sure how to describe this – even-keeled. He doesn’t get terribly excited, and doesn’t get terribly sad. He didn’t love any schools so much to say, I have to go here! And of all the schools he visited, there was only one if felt he could not see himself. So even if we had visited Dartmouth, 99% his reaction would have, meh, sure, this could work. He would not have said, i) I have to ED here; or ii) I hate this place, I could never go here. So for all intents and purposes, a visit wouldn’t have shed any more light.
So why Dartmouth? He think he would love the location (really liked the feel of other remote schools, e.g. Williams) and it has a particular extra-curricular he’s interested in. The non-accredited engineering is actually a plus. It gives him the flexibility to get a good LA education and have time for his EC. He can decide later if he wants to do the 5th year, or a masters, or go in an entirely different direction.
Yes, Dartmouth has its downside. 2.5 hours from an airport and then a flight home. The Greek life and drinking doesn’t inspire but again, he feels he would find his people, especially through his EC which is his passion.
Fwiw, decades ago, I attended both my undergrad and graduate institutions sight unseen. Both were a great fit on paper (which is to say, academically) – but the undergrad one was a poor fit socially. I wasn’t miserable, but as I was the eldest in the family, insisted that my younger siblings visit a school before attending. Yes, they were happy.
If your child knows enough people at Dartmouth to feel like they can get a good sense of the environment there, it might not be a huge gamble. You’re right that there is serendipity in a visit – everything from the guide to the weather to whether the day is near exams/break etc can change the impression. I would say part of it also depends on the adaptability of your kid. If he knows generally what to expect and is flexible, it could be okay.
If you could tell us which schools of the ones you visited got a thumbs up and thumbs down, maybe we can let you know whether it seems like Dartmouth would be an outlier.
In short, no.
We even visited (and realize we were fortunate to be able to do so) other possible top contenders to make SURE ED school was “the one”.
Our private HS’s college counselors will only sign off on an ED (not EA or REA) if the student has visited and can see themselves there, but that is our school. And I’m sure that exceptions are made, but it was the suggestion made to us regarding D24’s ED decision.
But we are just strangers on the internet, do what you think is right for YOUR family & child! Best wishes whatever route he chooses.
The extra cost for the 13th+ quarter(s) for the ABET-accredited engineering major is not an issue?
Brown also has the option of a non-ABET-accredited program and ABET-accredited programs, but the latter do not require extra semesters beyond the usual number.
Well, that’s the issue. The range between thumbs up and thumbs down was small. Really no rhyme or reason – which is why I say it seemed so tour-guide dependent. The only absolute deal-breaker was urban. But busy suburban (like Northwestern, Tufts) was fine, and even Yale (which would never be accused of being suburban).
I think you are right to emphasize knowing your kid. Some people are going to be more sensitive to things than others, and I tend to agree kids who are not very sensitive to most things, make friends easily, and so on are likely to do fine at most places.
That said, my S24 is not particularly choosey, but after visiting (one of our first visits), Dartmouth went from a possible high pick to off the list. I am sure he could make it work there, but it just didn’t feel right for him, and obviously there are too many great alternatives.
Part of that was learning he didn’t really want to go to a school quite that far from a large metro area, which was a really helpful thing to know. Part was learning that sort of high-percentage Greek Life/party vibe was not his thing. Indeed, the idea of finding your people anyway became a little bit of an inside joke, because he doesn’t really see the need to go to a school where he would have to find his people, versus a school just being known for his sort of people.
Still, I think he would likely have learned those things eventually from other colleges, and hopefully would have realized Dartmouth might not be the best pick for him. Indeed, we started steering away from colleges similar in those ways to Dartmouth, which presumably could have worked out the same if we had done them in a different order.
Anyway, this is a bit stream of consciousness, but I am just pointing out that while I agree with others that visiting any ED possibility is the ideal, I also think the kid really getting to know what matters to them, and what doesn’t, is important. And if that lines up behind a college you can’t visit for some reason, I still think that is OK.
Yes, the thought of a 5th year doesn’t excite me. It’s likely that he’ll never actually want to practice as an engineer so I think the accreditation doesn’t matter. And if he did, he would want to do a masters anyway, and get the accreditation that way.
This is my one and only concern, which prompted me to post the question in the first place. But I don’t know how much of this you can glean from a visit. He HAS talked to several alums (and current students) who rave about the school (almost in a cult-ish sort of way) but the social aspect remains a concern. We discussed it as a family and our view is that 4 years of college is about growth – academic and personal. He feels that Dartmouth would put him out of his comfort zone but would result in more personal growth than another school.
Of course, that comes at a risk. None of us want him to be miserable for four years.
Dartmouth doesn’t have to be forever. If he finds it’s not for him, he can transfer.
Very few master’s degree programs in engineering are ABET accredited, presumably because graduate level study is usually for specialization, without necessarily including coverage of the subject’s various subareas that is the typical expectation of a new bachelor’s degree graduate in the subject.
According to the accreditation search at abet.org , only 18 schools have any engineering master’s degree programs with ABET accreditation. Only one US civilian school (University of Louisville) has more than one such program.
I read this and scratch my head that you would ED.
There’s are great schools that could work - and give a solid engineering degree if he likes - with a strong Liberal Arts education - and in four years. And you might think non accredited is good - until you can’t get a job. So yes, you can get the BE degree - with extra time.
I don’t know what the EC is but I’m sure they have something like it elsewhere.
I think he’s putting a lot of faith in the EC which might not even be running full boor - lots of clubs are listed but barely operational, etc.
To me, it’s a hard no - but again, it’s up to the student. I’d want to visit if I were to ED.
For my kid, we toured the schools that were top of her list and potential ED extensively. Info session, campus tour, meeting multiple students, chatting with admissions staff and faculty. This was in addition to virtual sessions and online research. All of this was done by the student. They needed to be sure that ED was the right choice and that specific college was the one they wanted to attend above all else.
I guess my question to @HelicopterParent1 would be - why does he need to ED?
Because it’s about his only shot of getting in. Very few kids from his HS get in. Several years can go by without a single admit. ED is a very, very long shot. RD would seem to be almost zero and not worth the time spent on the app. But the schools checks his boxes in terms of location, curriculum (it’s hard to get a lot of humanities in at accredited programs), and yes, the EC is super important, and one the school is known for (being deliberately vague because I don’t want him doxed).
I think I would also be a little confused about EDing at Dartmouth. Off hand, what you have told us would seem to me to support just a regular RD application to Dartmouth, and then further consideration if accepted. Why the rush to commit?
If the idea is it gives him a boost, well, let’s check in with what Dartmouth says:
Keep in mind that the published higher percentage of applicants accepted early is somewhat misleading because it includes recruited Division 1 athletes, whose credentials have been reviewed in advance. With recruited athletes removed from the Early Decision numbers, the statistical advantage isn’t as large.
That’s nice of Dartmouth to note, but what else is like that? How about legacies? Are the pools different in terms of the distribution of individual application strength? And so on.
I am generally skeptical that applying ED matters much, if at all, to unhooked applicants to colleges like Dartmouth. So if that is the main reason–eh, I wouldn’t do it personally.