Yeah the part about how honors students are missing out on things could be construed as “looking down”, although it feels less like a judgmental tone.
@RMIBstudent While it may not be "pretentious " it is none the less judgmental and presumptuous.
@carolinamom2boys preamble1776 mentioned that they are in an honors college themselves- if that’s the experience that they’ve had in HCs, then it’s a valid opinion.
@carolinamom2boys , I was referring to seeing the elitism in my own experience backed up by an example in my life. Of course not every honors student exhibits such elitism, but yes, I totally have seen it in my own experience
I would think the blame for any elitism in honors programs often falls to the universities themselves. They foster it by the way they often set up their programs e.g. special dorms and such. It was a real turn-off to my kids who sought out a more inclusive campus experience.
My head is too full of working on making myself the best I can be-no room in there to be throwing shade on other people’s academic journey.
I sometimes sigh when I see people on my social media feeds posting about their kids scoring perfect numbers on AP’s and stuff, because I feel like you don’t need that public feedback for a job well done.
I feel like it puts a lot of pressure on the kids to kind of maintain that awesomeness, and then they end up doing weird stuff like looking down on kids doing less stellar pursuits when they feel insecure about their own continuing accomplishments.
It’s like double poison-the kid getting looked down on questions the validity of their choices, and the kid doing the looking down on has his accomplishments held hostage by only valuing them in reference to what others are doing.
I have no doubt that there are elitist people in an Honors program, or that the above posters have experienced elitism. My frustration comes from the intial generalization to “the Honors College” and not to the individuals that may possess those beliefs. It was only after someone questioned their comments was it disclosed that not every student is elitist . Making general statements doesn’t help anyone. Just as it would be inappropriate for me to say that people that aren’t in the Honors programs are students that don’t want to challenge themselves. That is equally as wrong. Neither program is better than the other. It’s about what each individual feels is the best direction for them.
@carolinamom2boys , true, I did not put in the disclaimer that “not all honors college students are elitist” because I didn’t feel it was necessary (I was only reflecting on my own experiences and wasn’t intending to generalize). I do see and respect that my comment could have been taken that way, though, and I again emphasize that I was only talking about my experience. Of course we are all limited to our unique experiences and shouldn’t try to make definitive statements about an entire group.
I think the overall argument/point here is that academic elitism does exist. At first it was presented in the “STEM vs. humanities” context and then it was shifted to “honors college vs. non-honors college.”
I find it interesting how people here are jumping in to defend honors college elitism whereas no one seems to have really taken as much offense to humanities majors being seen as “easy” majors.
I have no personal experience with humanities majors @harvestmoon so I can’t really speak to the complexity of a humanities program. I will say that my family and I definitely appreciate the value of a humanities education which is why my son chose to attend the Honors program in a liberal arts environment over a typical research university even though he is a computer science major. He could’ve easily been an English major, History major or Political Science major. He chose CS not because he thought that it was more complex, but because that’s where his interests lie. I have also challenged a particular high school junior who tried to argue with me that a liberal arts institution is no place for a CS major and that my son would never find a job with his degree. I understand your frustration , and I’m sorry that you are made to feel that you need to justify your choices to uninformed people.
@carolinamom2boys That seems like a balanced type of environment for him to be in! I admire that he’s choosing to study what interests him yet appreciates the value of a humanities education. I didn’t attend a liberal arts school for undergrad, but I’ve read on this forum that students who study more STEM-like majors while attending liberal arts schools still benefit tremendously from their experiences there (job offers, faculty attention, higher grad school acceptance rate, etc.).
I attended a research university for my undergrad degree but still got a great humanities education - my department had a strong curriculum in my particular field and, since it was a small, student-focused department, I was able to still receive the one-on-one attention that’s sometimes lost in bigger, more research-oriented schools. My graduate institution is also classified as a research university but has a more liberal arts college feel to it, which suits my humanities program.
I think this brings about another unique side to the entire academic elitist debate - does going to a liberal arts school automatically damper your STEM prestige / does going to a research university automatically damper your humanities prestige? In my experience it doesn’t, but others out there might argue/think differently.
It should not, although some specific schools (in either category) may be lacking in some specific subjects (whether STEM or non-STEM).
At one university during orientation humanities and social science students chanted “cubicle, cubicle, cubicle” at business students. The business students chanted back "Barista, barista, barista.
Never have and never will. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.
Just to clarify - I am a student in my University’s Honors College and have been since I began college. I did not mean to criticize all students who participate in an Honors College, because that would be outright hypocritical - not only am I a member of the Honors College, but some of my closest friends are as well, and we certainly don’t harbor any sort of elitism about that association. I also doubt that the attitudes I’ve pointed out exist across the board at my school, or in higher education in general. I apologize if my post could’ve been construed as a sweeping generalization - I thought the fact that I myself am an honors student would mean that it wasn’t a criticism of all honors students (otherwise that’d be pretty self-deprecating, lol.)
However, the observations I’ve made of some of my “fellow” Honors College students are that they do indeed look down on those who don’t participate in the Honors College. As another poster (@harvestmoon) mentioned, there exists an attitude that non-Honors students cannot be successful post-graduation - that such accolades as an acceptance into a graduate/professional program (PhD, Med School, elite law school, etc.) or fellowships can only be achieved by honors students (which is entirely false.) I find it unfortunate, because as I mentioned before, those particular students are isolating themselves from enriching interactions with students outside of HC - some of whom are the brightest people I’ve ever had the privilege of meeting.
I also agree that there are definitely institutional factors that fuel HC elitism. There is a fine line between offering particular privileges to Honors College students as a benefit of their membership and offering privileges that come at the detriment of non-Honors students. I think that my school tends to cross that line quite frequently.
Eh not at all, I honestly don’t care. I do feel very sad for people who are clearly smart and ruin their life with drugs and alcohol.
When you observe someone with this attitude, consider the likelihood that this person hasn’t been stretching himself academically. A business or engineering major who only takes the minimum and easiest required English or arts classes may not appreciate the depth and difficulty of the subjects. A science major who also takes advanced music theory or literary analysis classes will have a very different perspective.
Everyone follows the path that works best for them. It’s silly to look down on someone who’s taken a road you don’t know. Yes, the dilemma arises that I’m looking down on people who look down on people. That’s why we need philosophy majors to sort that out.