Art Major?

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
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<p>Thank you, bears and dogs. Those posts were epic. I will be much more informed the next time my daughter pokes her head up from behind her easel.</p>

<p>I have [Art</a> School](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Art-School-Propositions-21st-Century/dp/0262134934][b]Art”>http://www.amazon.com/Art-School-Propositions-21st-Century/dp/0262134934) and the discouragingly named [Why</a> Art Cannot Be Taught](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0252069501/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0262134934&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=075FDBH3AJ4RY49379RN][b]Why”>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0252069501/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0262134934&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=075FDBH3AJ4RY49379RN) sitting right here on the side table. I think they are the next step.</p>

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<p>This was almost exactly my daughter’s take on Dartmouth. Perhaps her instincts are good? That would be helpful. ;)</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>It hurts me you are so nice and polite. you won’t be turn out fake cheeky like the other dad poster I hope?
found the thread about Dartmouth. the nay-saying poster happened to went lower Ivy and was miserable him/herself.
everyone is biased but I am VERY biased and basically no school is good enuff for my fab, genius son. do not listen to me, please.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/visual-arts-film-majors/790476-hyps-art.html?highlight=Ivy[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/visual-arts-film-majors/790476-hyps-art.html?highlight=Ivy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I should add, I have never been to the area during winter. you should visit in feet of snow before signing up</p>

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<p>Angry, I think there’s an urban/rural dynamic going on here. The conventional wisdom is that if you’re serious about art then you need to find a college in a city, e.g., Yale, Brown, Columbia. I think this is unfortunate (and biased) as there are certainly advantages to studying in a naturally beautiful, insular environment. Hey, it’s only four years. The grit and squalor – and buzz – will be there when you graduate as well as on weekends and holidays.</p>

<p>I haven’t visited Dartmouth, but I think some of the New England and upstate schools have a lot to offer : Cornell, Williams, Hamilton, Colgate, Skidmore all have vibrant art departments, talented professors, committed students, generous facilities and good connections to the real world. The general liberal arts degree is a good thing for an artist (this is arguable I know) and 18 year olds do change their minds.</p>

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<p>Re Angry dad</p>

<p>A lot of kids like Yale, Columbia and UCLA since their MFA programs are arguably the best for art in America and regularly produce a lot of heavy hitters and young stars. </p>

<p>The impression i got from various forum posts and talking to my cousin who’s currently doing her MFA at Columbia was that the UG program there was not such a good option for art or media since UG students have limited curricular flexibility, heavy distributional requirements which take up almost half of their credits and virtually no interaction with the grad department. </p>

<p>Yale on the other hand is sort of the holy grail for art oriented kids with academic interests. Even though the course is a BA, it’s flexible enough to allow you to spend two thirds of your course load in art classes if you so desired i.e. it could be similar in rigor to a bfa. Not to mention there’s also the possibility of taking grad level courses in their famous grad school under their famous professors etc. </p>

<p>Brown, Bard and Wesleyan are also popular choices for the academic art major. Bard’s MFA program is well respected though not as prestigious as the aforementioned and their UG fine art students tend to go on to do quite well for themselves (think Walead Beshty, RH Quaytman). I think the deal with Brown and wesleyan is that their school atmosphere and curricular flexibility are beneficial to art students. Art majors at brown also have the opportunity to cross register in classes at RISD even if they arent in the dual degree programs which is a definite plus for art students. Both schools end up producing some folk who go on to be successful young artists every now and then (think Gedi Sibony, Elizabeth Neel for Brown and Rachel Harrison, Glenn Ligon for Wesleyan)</p>

<p>Most people that i’ve spoken to who are aiming for brown or yale tend to pick less selective liberal arts colleges/universities with good art programs for their second choices (like bard or wesleyan for example) as well as art schools that allow cross registering for academic courses like RISD, Cooper and SMFA.</p>

<p>Generally speaking, people choose these kinds of schools because they want more academic options/a more challenging academic education than your regular art school would offer while still getting a decent art education. It makes sense though, that when they finally get to places like yale or bard or brown where they don’t take the same kind of art course load that you would have to at an art school, they come out a little less developed portfolio wise than someone who has done their bfa at somewhere like MICA or RISD. And, as such, they tend to wait a little while before going after their MFA’s (which is what, I’m told, most grad schools prefer, BFA or no BFA). This isn’t a rule of course and varies from person to person. A friend of mine finished his undergrad degree in photography at yale a couple years ago and is doing quite well for himself at the moment, been published in the nytimes, interview etc. </p>

<p>I have no idea what the art programs at dartmouth/princeton/cornell/upenn are like but they definitely don’t have the kinds of reputations that most of the previously mentioned programs do. I would imagine, art wise, they are no different to studying at skidmore, occidental, colgate or any other lesser known school with a decent art program.</p>

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<p>Certainly not! :)</p>

<p>It’s funny, bears and dogs, because Yale is also, well, Yale in all of my daughter’s other areas of interest. With aspirations like Yale and Brown/RISD, it’s going to be imperative that she find safeties she really loves.</p>

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<p>Or citizen.</p>

<p>One of the things that was particularly frustrating about watching that show, um, Work of Art (wrong thread, I know), was that often, when contestants were trying to explain a piece, and anchor it in history or philosophy, they’d just start talking ragtime. When they had to design a book cover, I don’t think most of them had ever read any of the books.</p>

<p>It never hurts to know ‘stuff.’</p>

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<p>That’s very encouraging. Thanks, momrath. I don’t know where you got a hold of my daughter’s college list, though.</p>

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<p>And in turn are these all considered to be a step ahead of the BFA programs at, say, the Big Ten schools like Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ohio State?</p>

<p>Thanks again, everyone, for taking so much time to help me out. I can’t believe how helpful this has been.</p>

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<p>My son found the insular, rural experience (Williams undergrad) so rewarding he went back for more (Cornell graduate school). He ended up in architecture, though, not studio art. </p>

<p>I haven’t spent much time in Ithaca, but I can tell you for sure that the Berkshires have a very sophisticated arts community and Williams benefits from the interaction. The combined focus on art history (intensified by the accessibility of some fine museums) and art studio was a real draw for my son.</p>

<p>He was attracted to Brown and to Yale, of course, but decided ultimately that he preferred the teaching/learning style and ambience of the small LACs. His short list was Williams, Wesleyan, Hamilton and Kenyon. Williams turned out to be a profoundly good experience for him on so many levels.</p>

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I’m a Michigan alum and I received a fine education there, but I’m less enthusiastic about the art school. My son looked at UMich twice, for undergrad and for architecture, but decided to stay Eastcoast centric.</p>

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<p>About art instruction I cannot comment, but about Ithaca, personal opinion is being extrapolated here as if it was fact, I beg to differ. Many people like Ithaca.</p>

<p>"Ithaca is just not cool, hip, happening or admired. "</p>

<p>Some people may feel that way, others differ
[Best</a> Cities for College Grads - Galleries - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/1662/1/?redirectURL=http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-26/best-cities-for-college-graduates-from-ithaca-to-seattle/]Best”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/1662/1/?redirectURL=http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-26/best-cities-for-college-graduates-from-ithaca-to-seattle/)</p>

<p>There are a number of posts on CC, and elsewhere, of people who transferred from NYC schools and prefer Ithaca. Life in a college town is for college students, and priced accordingly. There are 28,000 college students in this small city, and they don’t all flitter off into the amorphous city. You may not want to live there forever, but for college many find it quite fun to be part of a community made for, and consisting of, largely and specifically them.</p>

<p>"… it is depressing - waterfall, gorge and suicide bridge,… [etc] </p>

<p>Upstate winters are not wonderful, otherwise the natural beauty in Ithaca is awe-inspiring, anything but depressing.
[Around</a> Ithaca, New York Photo Gallery by Unexplained Bacon at pbase.com](<a href=“Unexplained Bacon's Photo Galleries at pbase.com”>Unexplained Bacon's Photo Galleries at pbase.com)
[Cornell</a> University - Explore Cornell](<a href=“http://www.cornell.edu/explorecornell/?criteria=&startRow=1&scene=Natural+Beauty&mediaType=image%252Cflash%252Cvideo%252Caudio%252Cperson%252Cqtvr-obj%252Cqtvr-pano&orderBy=O.title&maxRows=all]Cornell”>http://www.cornell.edu/explorecornell/?criteria=&startRow=1&scene=Natural+Beauty&mediaType=image%252Cflash%252Cvideo%252Caudio%252Cperson%252Cqtvr-obj%252Cqtvr-pano&orderBy=O.title&maxRows=all)</p>

<p>Cornell’s long-term suicide rate is, I believe, still below national averages, it has traditionally gotten a lot of publicity due to the dramatic nature of jumping, vs., eg NYU students offing themselves in their dorm room. There was a recent spate there that was an anomoly, not the normal state of affairs.</p>

<p>“…has NOTHING to do with what your D or this certain mom heli’s D (voted best dressed, so she brags) could do at Cornell.”</p>

<p>?? what does this even mean?? Cornell is a highly diverse place. There are all sorts of students at Cornell, ranging from sorority types to people who could care less about what they wear. Virtually anyone along this continuum can find their niche, and group of like-minded fellow students. </p>

<p>Obviously its BFA program has students interested in Art. Somebody is going there. The Architecture, Art & Planning College, of which it is a part, has an over-60% yield for accepted students and the lowest admissions rate on campus, so I guess some people are pretty happy to go there; though no separate break-down for the art component. If the offerings and instruction meet your, or your kids, needs, there is no a priori reason to reject it based on location. That’s a matter of personal preference only, about which reasonable people may differ. But reasonable people may also reasonably think its location is quite fine for life as a college student.</p>

<p>I know a few artists and craftspeople who attended the university, the ones I happen know took courses in the Art department but majored in other colleges.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Ithaca does not have a huge gallery- type scene, so far as I know, and the Art museum does seem underutilized to me.</p>

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<p>I said you don’t have to listen to me.
I just happened to not like it as much as other lower ( gawk) ivies.
and ^this mom poster ( non art kid) is really a total bragger mouth in parent turf and she said in some post “D’s dream might not be Harvard”
then in fact, D did H interview and now attends " she sold herself short for lower Ivy" Cornell
" it was not her first choice"
I know it is one mom, one kid, and how everything go at big schools, but just wouldn’t want to deal with kids who grew up in this kinda value who goes off to Bergdorf with her first internship money before thinking about helping flood victim or at least chipping in for living expense for mom-funded apartment in Chelsea , and mom just had to brag-post all that- this kinda parents popping up often to check on D at college and go off to spa together in Ithaca ( don’t know if it’s in Ithaca, is there spa in Ithaca? and then go out for drink if not serious, dinner if serious seasonal BF of D’s, blah blah blah.
I guess, what I want to know is, how much portion of Cornell kids are there because it’s their first choice, not " great place to be" hindsight.
I am not talking about arch, eng, or what that? gardening or hospitality, but art-art. the way Cornell art’s NYC branch is operated, I just can not fathom they are serious in the very biased way that, I wish they’d be.
I am not saying Cornell is “well, it’s the best ( known, at least Ivy, my neighbor would be impressed) out of where I have gotten in” for EVERYONE.
but honestly, could you say, there is no such student at Cornell who wish they’d made it to HYSP or there is no such Cornell students who won’t underneath look down on kids in Ithaca college?
It is just what I think, again, nothing to do with what Cornell means to YOU.</p>

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<p>Wow, now its not because Ithaca is bad, now it’s because Cornell is bad, nobody wants to be there. Seems more like YOU don’t want to be there. That’s fine, but maybe you should leave it like that, rather than globalizing your preferences. Must have been a really bad bus trip !</p>

<p>“…how much portion of Cornell kids are there because it’s their first choice, not " great place to be” hindsight." (BTW this is what I mean by globalizing)</p>

<p>Plenty. Over 1/3 of the class is admitted early decision, and of course they virtually all come, obviously it was those students’ first choice. The overall yield (people who accept an offer of admission) is over 60% at five of its seven undergraduate colleges. The one college where there is intense competition from the vast # of schools with similar programs is Arts & Sciences. This too is an outstanding college, with outstanding programs and outstanding students, but an area where competition is very intense. But only 1/3 of Cornell’s students are attending the Arts & Sciences college. </p>

<p>Yes Harvard and Yale are yet more selective, so are some other universities. So what. It does not follow that everyone there is pining to be someplace else ,any more than at the other x thousand universities in this country that are not Harvard and Yale. Many students pine to attend Cornell, and do not get admitted. In aggregate, across the university, Cornell rejects more than 4 out of every 5 applicants.</p>

<p>Cornell offers a number of programs of study that most other colleges do not offer, and a good number of programs there are in the “top 10” in their respective fields. Including at the architecture college, where the BFA program is located. For many students there, there are few places that would be better suited for them to undertake their particular chosen programs of study.</p>

<p>And for those all over the country, everyplace, for whom a college selection was not their first choice school, and is less selective than Harvard:
So what.
They still thought well enough of their chosen school to apply and attend, hopefully they think it’s a “great place to be” too, otherwise they shouldn’t have gone there. Just because they are not someplace else, that doesn’t mean all these people are sitting around pining. They are going about their business and trying to excel where they are, and hopefully making the most of the opportunities they have. At Cornell those opportunities are many.</p>

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<p>I don’t have a lot of exposure to the ungraduate fine arts program at Cornell and can’t comment on it in comparison to Yale or Brown. (I wouldn’t put any of the other ivies – including Columbia – into the same basket for undergrad art).</p>

<p>HOWEVER, I would agree with monydad that for many, many students – including plenty who don’t make the cut – Cornell is their first choice school.</p>

<p>As I said in my earlier post, there is a strong prejudice among urban dwellers and wannabes that cities are the exclusive provenance of creativity. This just simply isn’t true, especially for four years of undergraduate study. </p>

<p>Believe it or not, some kids actually thrive in an insular rural environment. They are inspired by the natural beauty and invigorated by the active outdoorsy lifestyle. </p>

<p>I may be guilty of generalization here myself, but I think that a lot of kids who are drawn to the urban mystique actually grew up in the suburbs. Who could blame them for wanting a little excitement? For my son who only ever lived in mega-cities, the beautiful rural campus was a draw. The opportunity to live in an urban garret will be there when he completes his education – plus there are weekends and holidays. Upstate or Western Mass is not Antarctica.</p>

<p>In addition to not being urban, Cornell is the least “elite” of the ivies. It has a vibrant and diverse student body, a lively social calendar and a superb faculty. I think that every college in the Northeast (including the most left leaning) has its share of the rich and spoiled. In fact, you’re less likely to find this stereotype at Cornell than many of the other ivies, despite the Greek influence.</p>

<p>At HYPSM a lot of the star professors – in the arts, science, all disciplines – are not in reality the best undergrad teachers. The star quality may rub off, but by association, not by heartfelt, accessible teaching.</p>

<p>In college, especially undergrad, fit is everything. Assuming that every kid who doesn’t attend HYPSM is a disappointed loser, misses the point of the choices available in America’s great educational system.</p>

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<p>again, I am talking about art-art kid, not arch eng animal doctor kids. I know plenty who wanted and didn’t get in did ED hoping to get their chances up and get over with it ASAP knowing they are not quite undecided HYSP materials, flat out rejected, and in a way families are relieved minus bragging right because they are in middle class trap who can not but must pay- financially, cooper, pratt SUNY Buffalo makes more sense.</p>

<p>how long ago have you been a student/ taught/ kid went/ going there?
how many of actual current students you knew from your heart-heart what they do day in day out, wanna do from here there - after college apps gotten to this crazy game theoly thing ?
speaking about bias. defend your pet school and refused to hear what you don’t want to hear, fine, you do not see because you don’t get it ( like the bragger mom obviously still bragging about her D is best dressed at 2nd or 3rd choice WL-ed summer admitted parents had to scramble to get housing while ditching depositted safety because , you know, it is still lower ivy.</p>

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<p>momrath, you beat me by second, my post meant for the monydad.
I don’t mind spoiled brat at Williams Wes Yale Brown.
I do when it is Ithaca, for the reasons you say so well.
what’s the point gearing up with attire from Bergdorf where noone care what you are wearing or would step on cow manure with fancy heels?
wait, this means more like Williams, purple cow manure. boys with short hair girls with pony tails with running shorts. awwww.</p>

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<p>My daughter is there right now, she loves it there and is having the time of her life. I’ve known plenty of people there, I lived there for six years. More than you, maybe?? How many do YOU “knew from your heart-heart what they do day in day out”??? I’m on the third college-hunting expedition for my kids, and one of them did it twice, she transferred. </p>

<p>The bias is all yours, my friend.</p>

<p>"In college, especially undergrad, fit is everything. Assuming that every kid who doesn’t attend HYPSM is a disappointed loser, misses the point of the choices available in America’s great educational system. "</p>

<p>Well said. Besides, do you really think everyone there is obsessing about a dozen or so places that are yet more selective, or whatever, when there are literally thousands that are less selective?</p>

<p>To anyone interested: Evaluate the art program on its own merits, and likewise the unviersity, based on your preferences. But all this other stuff, about what “everybody thinks” is largely hooey. Lots of people love it there, if you think you might be one of them you could well be right.</p>

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<p>bs&ds, Please understand I don’t take offense at your comments but I just don’t agree with you that in order to be a certified creative you have to live in a gritty urban environment, grow your hair if you are male, cut your hair if you are female, swear off all fresh air and exercise, pierce your nose and vote democratic. In fact, it’s the art-art kids also adopt a cultural and apparel stereotype. The goth getups are just as much a group fashion statement as the polo shirts.</p>

<p>In other words, don’t judge an artist by his/her highheels!</p>

<p>America’s a big place with lots of room for diversity, in politics, in dress, in art. Ironically, I find that the most liberal colleges often have the most narrow spectrum of ideas.</p>

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<p>so you are saying you never hinted Cornell because you went there, thus not biased at all?
I have been telling you, I am biased and do not take me seriousely.
you can tell, then however how are their said art dept is doing that Angry dad wanted to know?
post that, please, here, in art forum.</p>

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<p>gawd momrath you are quick
I got it, I am learning it because thanks to you, partly. I never really looked at LACs until you opened my eyes.
however, I am bit disappointed your S did not choose our taxguy’s pet school
and far as I remember, you never included Cornell in your “list” until your DS started there.</p>

<p>Look, I don’t want to do this ( no I love doing this and go on forever but how stupid that would be) I don’t like Ithaca, and how I felt at Cornell, or how they push one floor on 17th street does not do anything to townsfolks can be the window to the NYC art scene.</p>

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<p>My son wanted small for undergrad. Cornell wasn’t on the list.</p>

<p>For graduate school architecture Cornell was always on the list, as were the other usual suspects. He’s really pleased to be there, but for all the time that he spends outside of the studio he may as well be in Antarctica.</p>

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<p>my head is spinning, playing telephone like.
I like your S, your take on things, did not ship him out to arch UG sibs doing different things urban/ country etc etc
however, you’d always listed Yale Brown Columbia for art strong, but never Cornell. and again, it was the argument.
I should’ve kept out the one bragger mom who’s D is not even an art kid, just could be the worst case scenario if your S happened to come out of studio once a semester or something and happened to bump into this perfect perfect girl and somewhat get tricked… what, what was that I am saying???
Thank you for your help past couple years, Williams is still our puppy love, short hair or not.</p>

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<p>For art undergrad my son’s interest was only in Yale and Brown among the ivies. You’re right I didn’t consider Cornell as an studio art destination, but I wouldn’t include Columbia either. This is for undergrad. For MFA programs I’m clueless.</p>

<p>My husband who is a practicing artist and bona fide art school graduate had short hair all through the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s. People thought he was in the CIA. Now that every old goat actor has short hair and a beard, my husband’s gone retro and grown a ponytail. </p>

<p>Artists are supposed to contrarians. That’s why I worry about some of the liberal lockstep that I see coming out of some of the most selective colleges. Kids need to be exposed to a wide range of ideas – in art and in life.</p>

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<p>sorry, I got mix-ed up. who was then, the Columbia pusher? mathmom? I have usename dyslexia.
good that your H has enuff hair left to make pony tail.
I think, lots depends on how good you look in certain style to even make it to degree of any statement.
for example, metal allergy kids can not get ear pieced, my kid can not have vans on wheels slip ons because his feet are too wide.
from my entire spying career in art-art kids, it is the whole package they’d want to push forward, look, talk and walk.
If any of the elements are missing, unless you are total genius or total misfit, there is this art-art peer pressure thing that hinder young minds’ chance to grow out of place with such pressure - catch 22 thing.
they are all visual people -reviewers, teachers, would be classmates, friends’ parent in art-art business, gallerist, art critics, sellers and buyers. I call it art haves and art have-not.
If anyone say there no such things, I’d just wish indeed that is so in this time and place in the world.</p>