<p>Hello Everyone,
I'm a new user, and have been perusing the forum for awhile but have finally decided to take part in it after a discussion I had with my sister a few days ago.
For quite awhile I've been under the impression that I definitely want to go to art school, and major most likely in illustration. I am a junior in high school and am a very well rounded person. I get very high grades, and am also quite interested in literature and writing. Art is what I love to do, which I discovered in the start of high school, and I am quite good at it, not to boast or anything. But my sister who is an art major, who has now transferred from being a Sculpture major at UArts to a Fashion and Design major at Moore College of Art and Design, has been advising me not to take the risks involved with going to art school. She says that she knows of very few friends that have gotten anywhere after they graduated from art school, even if they chose applicable majors such as graphic design or illustration. I'm well aware it would be a risk, but I'd like to know from the experience of any graduates or people of the sort, if it's easy or possible to get illustration jobs. I also am wondering whether it would be better for me if I went to a regular college strong in art and chose a double major with english or writing that would broaden the possibilities for jobs, as well as challenge me enough, because I don't know if a few liberal arts courses will be enough to keep me challenged academically. And if so, what colleges in the Northeast fit this description.
I'm just really overwhelmed and confused, and have no idea of what types of schools I should look at, and if I would have a future if I do decide to be an art major.</p>
<p>Actually, there was an article in one of the magazines that noted that art majors are becoming one of the more 'in-demand" majors around because of their emphasis on creative thinking. </p>
<p>There are several rules in life that I would like to suggest:</p>
<ol>
<li>You can get many jobs regardless of the major!</li>
</ol>
<p>Elaboration: look at all the people who major in English or Sociology or Anthropology who get good jobs anyway.
2.There are specific jobs for art majors, especially in graphic design, digital work, web design etc.
3. If you are outstanding at what you do, you will always be in demand. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>You can always go on to grad school for law, medicine ( yes, even medicine), and MBA.</p></li>
<li><p>If you follow your passions in life, you will have a better chance of success. There are many folks working at dead end job and/or doing things they hate. I think it takes years off their lives.</p></li>
<li><p>Having good writing, reading and clear thinking skills will always help you out with employers.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are really concerned about your job prospects, consider going to a school that has both a strong art program and strong liberal arts program and not just a stand alone art school such as UArts. Examples of college with strong art and liberal arts would be LACs such as Skidmore, Williams, Amherst. etc. Some universities with strong programs would be Michigan, Wash U St Louis, Carnegie Mellon, RIT for applied arts, Syracuse University. Surprisingly, Univeristy of Cincinnati has a very strong reputation in applied art such as industrial and graphic design and interior design.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I should note that I believe that you do get stronger artistic training at stand alone art schools because they require less liberal arts and usually have a lot more offerings to choose from. However, the liberal arts, as a general rule, are usually weaker at stand alone art schools than that of LACs and some of the stronger universities in my opinion; thus, there is a trade off. I am sure that some stand alone art schools, however, have decent liberal arts such as MICA, RISD etc. </p>
<p>My personal opinion is that if you are really sure that art is what you want and you can't see yourself in any other area, you might be better off with a stand alone art school.</p>
<p>One problem with art is that, even if you are solidly employed, it usually doesn't pay very well unless you either have your own successful business or you become an art director. This is generally true for most of the arts. </p>
<p>Hope this helps. There are many others on this forum that I am sure will provide better and further insight than I have provided.</p>
<p>Hey! I was in the same spot as you this time last yr! I was a junior and I seriously wanted to go to Art School. Like you I understood that this was a big risk and that by going to an Art School I would be heading towards the role of 'struggling artist". I also understood that LACs are not the same as art schools and was concerned about this - I didn't want to make the mistake of going to a school that would hinder my development of becoming the best artist I could be.</p>
<pre><code> Stuck in the mud - I made a wise decision - I attended a Summer PreCollege progam! I went to MICA and had the best experience ever! Going to an art school is VERY different than going to a LAC or even a big universitry ( i've taken classes at them). At Art School the people are focused on art and ONLY art. Everyone has the same goal as you - to become an artist. It's a good thing and a bad thing - Its inspiration but then at the same time its a reality check- to make it in the art world IS TOUGH. Your inspiration will come from the artists around you, and this can be confusing. Many of the artists will think they are better than you. You learn that in the artworld that you have to hold your strong- you have to have an ego. I found that Art School was not for me but I loved it. I cannot say any bad things about MICA's teaching ... I loved all my teachers and the atmosphere was very positive--- I was considering going to MICA and thought about it ALOT. In the end - I've decided to stick with going to a LAC or a university. I might take summer art classes at RISD or MICA - who knows.
Check out the programs available - MICA and RISD do intensive programs. They are alot of fun and when I say intensive I mean it! I came home with a whole new portfolio .... IT WAS AMAZING. My work is amazing in the sense that I've have gained more skill - I cannot believe how much better I am!
Also another perk of Precollege programs - coming out you might find that you have been 'awarded' a scolarship.....hm mmmmmm
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<p>Oh by the way - I forgot to mention - there are some really good specialty programs art schools have out there....</p>
<pre><code> Mica has a Masters in Teaching/ BFA prgram (5yrs). 99% of the students in this program get a job in teaching once they get out of MICA. If you are thinking about artschool - look for a gem like that. You can become an artist but at the same time you have a good chance of getting a job post graduation. Of course - this program is something you can sign up for only AFTER you have been accepted to the school
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<p>Tough question to answer Sun. I faced the same quandary and came down on the side of going to an LAC or University with a good art program. Here's why:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>My intellectual interest go beyond art. I'm interested in history, philosophy, literature, and a number of other areas and realized that an art school would probably not let me explore those areas to my satisfaction.</p></li>
<li><p>I also want to minor or double major in creative writing. Again, most art schools do not have adequate creative writing programs.</p></li>
<li><p>Although I'm convinced that art and creative writing are what I want to do now, I also realize that I could change my mind. Friends of mine have - one went from an art major (she was real good, by the way) to an accounting major. I felt that if I changed my mind, it would be easier to pursue the change at an LAC or University. Wouldn't have to transfer, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>I wanted a more rounded education than most art schools could provide. To put it another way, my other intellectual interests feed my artistic imagination. For example, stuff I've learned in history classes has found its way into IB Senior art project.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In the end, I chose LACs and Universities that offered very good or good academics and strong art programs. Here's the list of schools I applied to:</p>
<ul>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Washington University in St. Louis</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>Connecticut College</li>
<li>William and Mary</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Syracuse University</li>
</ul>
<p>Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Syracuse offer art BFA's. Conn Coll is a good LAC with a well regarded art BA. William and Mary is a top quality state school with a good sized art department. And Penn, of course, is Ivy League with really excellent art facilities and top-flight academics.</p>
<p>As far as getting jobs after graduation, well, I don't know. One of the things I looked for in a college was whether they were well regarded and/or whether they offered intern programs. I figured one or the other would give me a leg up in the job market after I graduated. All the schools I applied to either are the former and/or offer the latter.</p>
<p>Hope the above helps.</p>
<p>amptron2X: Having followed your posts and replies, my s and I are interested to know what information you have found out regarding W&M's art department. Being from VA (and having my brother graduate from there) we are very familiar with the school's great academic reputation. Unfortunately, we really haven't heard much about the studio arts, though. A well-regarded art teacher at s's high school shared with him that W&M's art history program is strong, but he felt that the studio arts were not. Of course this teacher has his BFA and MFA from VCU, so I am sure he is biased to his alma mater. We would be interested to learn more from your research.</p>
<p>Ok thanks guys for all your imput. </p>
<p>To fluffyfluff:
I was thinking about attending pre-college if I can convince my parents to pay for it, hopefully at risd, but if not pratt since its nearby. I dont really know specifically what questions to ask you about it, but how is it? Is it worth the money? And I was thinking about maybe going into a major that I know nothing about (graphic design). Would that be hard? Do they teach you the basics at a major like that, or is it better to improve upon a major you are already strong at?</p>
<p>Thanks taxguy and amptron, for those lists of lac and your advice.</p>
<p>If you are worried about getting a job, I would pick a field a bit less saturated than graphic design. This is perhaps the most commoditized commercial art field around, and getting worse by the minute. Put bluntly: there are exponentially more graphic designers than jobs.</p>
<p>i would agree with the suggestion of doing a pre-college summer program; many of them have financial aid, so dont let cost be too much of a worry.
i have a friend who did a pratt summer program and is at pratt now. i think pratt is a great choice because it's not just art, although that is what they are known for - they also have a writing program, and the oldest library science program in the country. so you could do both art and writing there. and i believe they have a pretty strong liberal arts core curriculum.<br>
you could also check out eugene lang college, which is part of the new school university in nyc. all their majors are extremely creative - art, film, etc - but they also have cultural studies, media studies, and psychology, and english, and so on. and you can take classes at parsons school of design which is also part of new school. i applied to lang and got a half-tuition scholarship in addition to lots of need-based aid. i think their website is <a href="http://www.lang.edu%5B/url%5D">www.lang.edu</a>.
i've also heard good things about bennington (in vermont).</p>
<p>ThereWasSun: Scarfmadness is right- don't worry about the cost of precollege programs b/c many have financial aid. </p>
<pre><code> The Programs you speak about Pratt and RISD are more expensive at regular price than MICA. I chose Mica partially b/c its reputation and partially b/c it was well priced. It was a couple thousand dollars cheaper than the other two ( I think this is b.c the Baltimore area is less expensive - because the neighborhoods are patchy - just to clarify- I felt safe at MICA's program- they keep a VERY CLOSE eye on the precollege kids and made sure we had fun at the same time - ex trips to NY and DC).
When considering these programs consider that you will spend much money on required art supplies ... I spent a little over $500 for four weeks at MICA. I know some kids who spent more- some less. I believe some kids got full ride scholarships to the program. Some kids get scholoarships based on their portfolios alone... My friend applied for financial aid and ended up only paying like $1,500 in total (including supplies)
If you are signing up for graphic arts you might not have to spend so much and you might not have to carry around so much...... I had a friend at Mica who spent alot less on materials because she was in graphic arts....
Just check out the programs at each school and the scholarships offered. I really think its beneficial to go to an art school and take classes if you are stuck making a decision of where to go after HS. You asked me whether I think it is a bad idea to try a major you've never experienced. I don't think it is. It might be hard- the MICA program was rigorous. It depends what you want. Interesting enough many Precolleges- I know for certain RISD and MICA do this- split the summer program into three different classes. I know at mica You have a main class, a workshop and an art history type class. You could take your main class in something you like ( which has the most weight on your grade) and then take the workshop in graphic arts.....
I learned alot from the program because I got lots of work experience. I was in the studio 8 (ish) hours a day and then some nights I would have a 4 hour class. Bedtime check in was at midnight. My TA told me that the summer program is in some sense more rigourous than normal art college b/c of the time constraint. None the less- I feel like I gained so much from the program - I know how important art is to me and the quality of my work is 100% better.
Feel free to ask any questions - I'll do my best to answer them. I know its had deciding what to do. I too love English and writing. It was when writing my essays for Mica's art history seminar class (everyone must take) that I realized how much I love writing and how i missed it in my life.
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<p>TWS, As Taxguy so cogently explains, whether to study art at an art school or to study art as part of a liberal arts education at a small college or large university is a tradeoff. You can get an excellent education following either route and go on to be a successful professional in the arts or in many other fields. </p>
<p>My advice to you would be to visit as many schools as you can this year and over the summer. Try to visualize what it would be like to be a student. As others have said at an art school all of your colleagues will be involved in, surprise!, art. At a liberal arts school or university your friends will be majoring in art and many, many other fields -- philosophy, history, chemistry, English, music.</p>
<p>The art school will offer more intensive art focused experience. Your fellow students will live and breathe art 24/7. </p>
<p>The liberal arts college or university will offer a wider and more diverse range of opportunities, especially in other art-related activities like theater, music, dance, writing as well as completely different academic disciplines. Neither is better; they are just different.</p>
<p>Not all universities and colleges, however, have serious and well funded art departments. The ones that I would recommend looking at are: Skidmore, Hamilton, Kenyon, Vassar, Conn College, Williams, Wesleyan -- and Smith if you are female. For universities I'd look at UMich, CMU, Brown, Yale. All of these also have excellent art history programs, many with access to world class museums. They also represent a wide range of selectivity, which is an important consideration. Your portfolio will be an asset for admissions to any college, but for an LAC or University your grades and scores are also evaluated.</p>
<p>Although I appreciate that the purpose of college is to prepare you for LIFE, I'd not worry too much about your ultimate vocation at this point. You will most likely change your objectives again and again in the course of the next 5 years. If you concentrate on getting the best possible education in the environoment that is right for YOU, the rest will fall in place.</p>
<p>KandKsMom - I have to admit that William and May is a bit of a shot in the dark. The school has a great academic reputation, as you noted, and in a large part my decision to apply there was driven by that - I want strong academics. The studio side of the art department looks at least OK. It has five permanent members, all with MFAs and four visiting or adjunct members, also all with MFAs. The department requires a pair of foundation courses (2D and 3d), and offers, among other courses, four drawing classes, three painting classes, and two watercolor classes, all of which can be reputed for credit. This seems to fit nicely with my interest in illustration. I also liked the emphasis the college makes on small classes and one on one interactions between students and professors.</p>
<p>One interesting feature of the department is that you need between 40 and 48 credit hours for an art major, but you can take an additional 12 credit hours for credit, by permission, if you intend to get an MFA. While that doesn't give you as many credits as most BFA's, it would give you considerably more credits than most LAC or University BA's, and I figure it would be a real help if I do go on for an MFA.</p>
<p>Also, the college is planning to completely renovate and update the art building (Andrews Hall) in 2008 at a cost of about $5.4 million. And, although I'll probably only benefit from the renovation for one year if I get in, my feeling is that you don't spend money like that on facilities unless you consider the department you're spending the money of some importance.</p>
<p>TWS - I was in the pre-college program at Pratt last summer, in graphic design. Didn't do the resident program at Pratt's Brooklyn campus. Instead, did the non-resident program in Manhattan (which was less expensive) and commuted in from NJ. The Manhattan program was just OK - the teachers were uneven. And, although the classes improved the quality of my work,the most important thing I got out of it was the realization that I really didn't like graphic design all that much. Changed my focus to illustration and concept art.</p>
<p>I should add that we did get to the Brooklyn campus a couple of times for joint exhibits, and it seemed to me that the kids in the resident program had better teachers and a better experience, maybe because they were taught by regular faculty and we were taught by adjuncts and summer hires.</p>
<p>Amptron2X, thanks for taking time to share the positive information about W&M. It is a great school and I am happy to hear they are planning on putting money into Andrews Hall. Good luck to you and TWS wherever you both end up!</p>
<p>My recommendation is to follow your heart and your passion and make sure to get a good business ,marketing background.</p>
<p>I went to Rutgers (before Mason Gross School Of Art) -had a great time "making art" and I also have a MFA from BArd- Back then there was not one business class offered in the art department-and the MFA program was simply about the art making.</p>
<p>It is very hard to make a decent living even if your paintings are selling unless of course you happen to hit it big in NYC. I work in a restaurant to supplement my income. I say that I make a quarter of living selling art. I am also married to a commercial photographer (Advertising and architecture)-we struggle to make ends meet.( But we are both pursueing our dreams.)</p>
<p>I would not be happy if either of my two sons wanted to go to art school.</p>
<p>Go check out RISD,School of Visual Arts in NYC, MFA school in Boston-,the art school in Savannah, Chicago-etc.look at their course book-are they offering courses on how to approach a gallery,how to market your work,how to manage your own business ,etc. </p>
<p>see what their graduates are doing-Get some names and call them.And do the same for Syracuse,NYU,Ithaca,Rutgers, Skidmore,and the other liberal art schools.</p>
<p>Some of your replies suggest summer programs.........do that-they are great but that will be what art school is about-just making art-it is amazing..... </p>
<p>but it is not what life as an artist is about.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>ThereWasSun, You have been given much good advice. Everyone considering going to art school, especially, stand-alone ones should attend a summer program. Now is the time to apply. Submit a portfolio and you might end up with a scholarship. If you are in NY and are interested in illustration, consider the summer program at SVA. One of SVA's strengths is illustration another is graphic design. The summer program is significantly less than the others (MICA, Pratt, RISD) that have been mentioned.</p>
<p>I can't improve much on the advice that's been offered here. My daughter attended RISD, with a major in industrial design (ID). The cost of supplies and equipment is indeed something to take into consideration at art school; I'd estimate that my daughter spend $2-300 per month on supplies, and this was partly because of her major, I'm sure. Not to mention, art majors are working at all hours, and their costs for coffee must be something else as well!</p>
<p>Apart from the difference in subject matter, the rhythm of art school is totally different from a regular higher educational institution. In art school you have numerous and incessant deadlines on projects, which are subject to critiques ("crits") by your fellow students and the faculty. You work extremely hard to meet the deadlines and to produce things that you can effectively defend (not just learn from). Some kids relish this (my daughter seemed to), and some dread it. </p>
<p>Producing and "selling" design projects is both an act of creation and an act of "promotion" and it often involves teamwork and coordination with other people. And so what you learn in art school is not only how to produce things but also effective communication through the art product itself and through representations of it orally, visually, and in writing. Thus, your experience in art school can be valuable in other ways, even if you don't end up mainly creating or producing art.</p>
<p>How you make your way from a BFA (if you go that route, whether at art school or another college or university) to an art-based career differs a lot depending on what your major is. Some people who are more into the fine arts (painting, sculpture, etc.) find that it's a lot easier to make money using their design skills (e.g., graphic design, illustration). My daughter is finding that combining her skills in ID and GD is important on many of the things she is doing -- working as a freelance. One of her classmates -- perhaps the #1 in her class in ID (this was 2 years ago) -- after working for a couple of years in industry in lighting design decided to go for an MFA in ID at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. I mention these cases to illustrate that you need to be flexible, and also that it may take some time to find the kind of employment you want. </p>
<p>But I should emphasize that this is hardly unique to art careers! Most undergraduate majors do not train you for a particular job, or even for a particular career. They give you skills, and it's up to you to find the way to capitalize on them. "Shameless self-promotion" is one of the things that my daughter says is necessary. But as I watch the early career of my son, a few years older than my daughter, I also see a process of successive stages of adaptation -- using skills and interests, luck and hard work -- to find a career and an employment situation that both fits one's interests and is sufficiently rewarding (and remunerative). He majored in economics, not art.</p>
<p>If you have the talent, the inner drive, and a willingness to promote yourself effectively -- and you really want to be an artist or designer -- go hard at it in college. I know this isn't to say whether you should attend a stand-alone art school or a larger or more general college or university. But it says, to reiterate what's been mentioned above, that you should go with your heart.</p>
<p>My daughter attended MECA'S (Maine College of Art ) early college program this summer. It was a wonderful experience for her. MECA has an exceptional program and Portland is a very safe city full of art, music and great food. She worked really hard and her art flourished. She is a senoir and has decided to apply to some LAC's and some art schools, figure out where she gets in , pick her favorite LAC, her favorite art school and spend a weekend there and see where she can see herself. She has purposely chosen art schools with strong liberal arts and LAC with good fine art programs and looser core cir. requirements. Interestingly, some art schools have more LA requirements than some LAC's . I have a friend with a freshman @ Princeton who is in the engineering program which is so rigorous she said he would basically be taking math and engineering courses exclusively until graduation. I guess what I am saying is that programs vary according to the school and you should look carefully at them.
One more point : I spoke to a friend who is in admissions at a very selective LAC to see if it was difficult to transfer from an art school to a LAC, she said they would not look differently at a canidate from an art school vs another LAC.</p>
<p>//If you are worried about getting a job, I would pick a field a bit less saturated than graphic design. This is perhaps the most commoditized commercial art field around, and getting worse by the minute. Put bluntly: there are exponentially more graphic designers than jobs.//</p>
<p>Agree and disagree. There are thousands and thousands of lousy graphic designers because everyone thinks it's a matter of using software; bunk. If you are good; you will be much in demand especially if you can extend your skills into interactive and digital media where there is a tremendous shortage of good designers IMO. The integration of interactive and visual communications is the next step and there will be a growing need.</p>
<p>Kind of a detour on the original subject of this thread, yet an important aside I think:</p>
<p>For those Art Major forum "veterans", in your opinions what are going to be the "hot" majors or careers for high schoolers interested in art to be looking at after graduation in say 4-6 years? Do you see any trends emerging in the art field? Thanks!</p>