<p>RainingAgain, as a first time parent going through this whole process, I must say I am encouraged by your opinion. Keep in mind I am just basing my perceptions on our child, and I hope others don't interpret my post as saying that stand alone art schools aren't good for many kids. I am sure they are. Our oldest will turn 18 just as he is moving into a college dorm. Even though he adores art, he loves other subjects, too. Could he take a science or English lit course in college and fall in love with it so much as to change gears and want to pursue a career with that as a focus? I see that as a possibility. I only hope that we are not penalizing him art career-wise by encouraging him to not look into art only schools. </p>
<p>As an added thought, do you all find that kids that go the cc, LAC or state school route more often than not go onto grad school to get more of the specialization that they desire? It would seem to me to be the best route to take. As flitkavirtuoso mentioned, it also appears that contacts and connections are really important in finding an art related job. I think that concept is vastly underrated in general when it comes to kids finding employment in any field.</p>
<p>//I think all kids should go to a local community college or a state LAC first, to get their feet wet before spending the big bucks on a more specialized education. The credits can always transfer, and why would you want to pay big money for an English class at an art college when you can take the equivalent or better for a fraction of the cost.//</p>
<p>Good call, but remember to check which classes to take first at the community college. A lot of community colleges will assure you that they are accreditted and your credits will transfer, but they don't consider art schools. If you want to eventually transfer to an art school, try to take as many first year studio courses that you would take at the prospective art school as you can. If not you'll find that the art school you want to attend will transfer your liberal arts classes, but you'll stil have to go for 4 years (on a less intensive courseload), because all of the major foundation and major courses are prerequisites to one another and you still have to take them in order, and can't condense them into single years, etc.</p>
<p>Based upon my own experience, my perspectives of myself and what I wanted to do were not so well formed when I graduated HS. I entered a specialized program, but wasn't mature enough to succeed at a level the cost "required" I should. I needed to learn more about myself before I could apply myself fully to one discipline; I eneded up switching majors numerous times and it cost me a great deal of extra money and time. In the end, I did finish my studies, but by a circuitous route, and I attended many colleges looking for the final fit. I remember telling my parents I wasn't ready to go straight to college, but they said if I didn't go right away, I likely never would. In retrospect they were wrong. It was too much too fast for me. I've worked as an admissions counselor, instructor, and have friends and family that teach. We expect the kids to be very mature at age 18, and some feel as though something is terribly wrong with them if they haven't received their degrees by age 22. My wife has a student that is very discouraged to be 26. I used to tell them there is no timetable but the one that you set for yourself and works for you. Everyone has their own pace. Some clearly know their passion and have the drive, some aren't so sure. It all depends on the kid. Your child should love what they do; if they don't know yet what they love, in my opinion...they aren't ready and should go to a state LAC where it doesn't cost as much to figure it out.</p>
<p>K&K, there are many ways to get to any given end-point. My sense is that artistic talent and an interest in a career in art or design can emerge from almost any kind of college environment. I know some young artists who are doing well (so far) coming out of an LAC. They don't need more education, just a strong dose of hard, creative work, as well as luck, to move further.</p>
<p>If I had my druthers, my daughter would have attended a more "general" school rather than an art school as an undergrad. But she wasn't interested in this strategy. As it turned out, however, she discovered or deepened an interest in ecological design as she was completing her BFA and was able to take a couple of courses at Brown that allowed her to broaden her studies beyond what RISD had to offer. In NYC she is now a co-director of an association of ecological designers, while working full-time in ID and GD. Now she is beginning to think that, perhaps in a year or two, she will go for added study in green design (or "sustainable design" -- as the jargon also goes) so that she can work and possibly teach in that area in the future. She thinks she has to learn more in a classroom/lab/studio situation, not just practice in order to become better in this field. Most programs in the U.S. with such a focus are oriented toward architecture; she would want a program in ID with such a focus, one of which might be the University of Delft. Time will tell whether she goes this route. But it's interesting to see her interests develop.</p>
<p>As the parent of several children who have gone through or are going through college, I have to agree that some kids are ready, some are not, and for those who are not ready, a community college can be a good route. That said, one of the disadvantages of a community college is that your classmates are a decidedly mixed bag -- truly dedicated students who are working like crazy, kids whose panicked parents are making them take some college classes, burnt out workers trying to refuel. For some, this can be a rich environment; for others, it can be a little like high school with a teacher trying to accommodate too many learning levels. At an LAC, the teaching seems to be aimed a little higher, and the discourse can continue well out of the classroom, not always the case in a commuter community college.</p>
<p>As the parent of an art school student, I have to say I think this education is worth every penny for my particular student. The education, IMHO, is far more intense and directed and, in many, many ways, superior to what my other kids have had at top LACs. Yes, it's specialized -- but because art requires more than simple technique, the education also demands broader knowledge that's implicit in the process. My daughter is continually seeking out new subjects on her own and in concert with her instructors. It's dynamic, integrated, and so much more relevant than the stand-alone economics, history, psychology, poly sci, English, etc. classes my other kids took. And, as one final note, I'm <em>very</em> impressed by the quality of RISD's liberal arts offerings. These classes are every bit as good as those offered at LACs. Don't diss them, folks. Have a look at those faculty members teaching liberal arts at RISD. They're top-notch. </p>
<p>I cringe every time I see the RISD bill. (No, I do more than cringe.) All of us are working double-time and taking out loans for this bill. But I remain enormously impressed with this education, and I'm not a neophyte when it comes to considering higher education. Those who wonder if the art degree is worth it might want to have a look at recent articles in the Wall Street Journal and Boston Globe regarding the huge push in all fields to hire art school graduates. This push recognizes that an art education is about far more than drawing -- it's about vision and process. Yup, I think it's worth it.</p>
<p>I'll second your endorsement of the liberal arts faculty at RISD. I know a couple of those people (from my own professional connections, not from my daughter's experience), and they are first-rate. The access to Brown is also valuable. We also don't question the value of the art education or, for that matter, the "diploma" value. But we did gulp at the costs, though they were a few thousand dollars lower per year than what we paid for my son's education at Chicago, even after taking into account the costs of supplies and tools.</p>
<p>//I'll second your endorsement of the liberal arts faculty at RISD. I know a couple of those people (from my own professional connections, not from my daughter's experience), and they are first-rate. The access to Brown is also valuable.//</p>
<p>Indeed, but if the cost of an art college is prohibitive, certainly, it is wise to consider transferring liberal arts credits taken at a state college for a much cheaper price. </p>
<p>Incidently, you can find fantastic faculty in many unheralded institutions, not only at the "finest" art colleges. Best drawing teacher I ever had was at a small LA school. The man knew how to teach! He put a twist on me that I never forgot; he was a genius. He knew exactly how to push the buttons of each student in the class; simply amazing.</p>
<p>Also, regarding the cost of Pratt; it costs a great deal of money to operate in the NYC area, yes? But consider that the campus is in NYC, which provides to most immediate and abundant resources; museums, employment opportunities, contacts, etc. So a drawback of attending a school in NYC is also a benefit. For example, SCAD is considerably less, $20,000? But Savannah is certainly not as interesting as NYC. In fact, it's quite provincial. So, pick your poison I guess.</p>
<p>This is all such great dialogue and food for everyone's thoughts. Alia, I am happy that you are pleased with what your daughter is gaining at RISD. Wouldn't it be awful if you/she didn't feel that way and you were paying that tuition! It is good to hear that the quality of the liberal arts faculty is strong there. Taxguy has said it is supposed to be strong at MICA, also. For us though, I think it comes down to two areas of quantity (not quality)...in the actual # of LA classes offered and in the quantity of money it would take to attend! :) </p>
<p>I also think that like some of the other posters said, it seems you may have to look under a lot of rocks to find the right place for you to get a good art education. And RA, I fully agree about great educators and educations possibly coming from the not so popular and highly esteemed places. That is why I like reading this forum, because you hear and learn so much from what others share. Thanks!</p>
<p>I think as long as one attends a reputable and decent art school that offers you merit aid, there's no reason to go to a school like RISD or a top art school that won't give you merit aid.</p>
<p>At the end you're getting into debt for no guarantees.</p>
<p>Name brands aren't everything (no guarantees). In the end, when everyone's mixed up in the real world, your own talent will get you there.</p>
<p>I said this a long time ago in a much more humorous situation (in car ride down Yosemite mt.) but here it is again: slow and steady wins the race.</p>
<p>Although being slow was important for a safe "landing" in that case, the steady part is most important in almost all other situations. Especially in art.</p>
<p>I was accepted to RISD, Pratt and Chicago and I couldn't go to any of them because they were too expensive! Now I'm going to liberal arts school and trying to transfer. RISD hinted that they give more $ to transfer students so that might be true of other art schools as well...</p>
<p>i think any one whose interested in majoring in graphic design and who depend on need should really hit up schools like carnegie mellon, just because a research university like that can offer merit scholarships plus need based ones,.</p>
<p>Liek0806, my daughter attends a top school with two magnet programs. Several people got into Carnegie Mellon. Not one that I know of, got merit scholarships. I do believe that they give them,but it is very difficult to get and very few are given. We did, however, meet one person, who is a design major at CMU, who did get some merit scholarship. However, she had a very strong GPA and SAT. She felt that she didn't get the scholarship because of her portfolio,</p>
<p>who really cares whether it is merit aid or financial aid? Even though still on the PWL, my son will get a package worth $14,600 in grants from CMU if admitted, compared with a package of $10,100 from MICA (where he enrolled) which was $9G in scholarships and $1100 in work study............. BUT NO NEED BASED AID! WHY?</p>
<p>Only RIT and Purchase College offered both merit and need based aid.</p>
<p>While there are certain perks involved with grants (guaranteed renewal if GPA minimum is achieved and priority registration, etc.), the fact of the matter is financial aid money is just as green as scholarship money.</p>