<p>o_o That means Asian Americans have to get higher SAT scores? oo;;; I'm dead meat. ><;</p>
<p>Quote from the article:</p>
<p>"...professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. recently estimated that two-thirds of blacks at Harvard are not descendants of American slaves but the middle-class children of relatively recent immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa."</p>
<p>Yeah, the Caribbean blacks are not descended from American slaves. They are descended from Caribbean slaves. What does he think all those Africans were doing in places like Jamaica and Haiti in the 18th and 19th centuries? Vacations?</p>
<p>All I have to say is, "Shame on you, Mr. JM" </p>
<p>This is the second time that Jay Mathews has allowed himself to be conned by people who are less than honorable, to say it mildly. The first time, Jay Mathews admitted that he wrote the column to get Ed Chin of his back. What is his excuse now for writing such a horrendous column and giving credibility to the "research" of a lunatic like Ed Chin, whose "research" is the same simplistic concoction of half-truths, erroneous interpretations of data, and outright fabrications that has been entirely debunked on CC. </p>
<p>Doesn't Jay Mathews grasp the ridicule of basing an article on the reports of a defrocked MD who jumps from one website to another to preach his fallacies, and on the "words" of a consultant mostly known for reinventing himself and his clients through identity repackaging and numerous dubious practices. </p>
<p>Can Jay Mathews drop the standards of journalism any lower?</p>
<p>I love the irony of an Admissions Consultant who named his firm "Ivy Success" counseling students to expand their college searches to include schools outside of the Ivy League.</p>
<p>All I can say to Asian families who feel that racial-preference admissions policies are tough on their kids, "join the club".</p>
<p>Nothing new there, right?</p>
<p>I have read a lot about this topic, and it's sad how many, many articles about this perceived bias are based on numbers. I'd be a millionaire if I had a nickel for every time someone has said, "But I had higher SATs...." etc. Some people have, as the French say, an "idee fixe" (I can't put in the accent marks) that numbers count for everything, when they seem to mean very little. Bates - a top LAC that doesn't use SATs as an admissions criterion - says there is virtually NO difference in grades and graduation rates between those who submit SATs and those who do not.</p>
<p>The second fixed idea is that people "deserve" a place in the Ivies - that these PRIVATE schools should NOT be allowed to create the kind of community they want - that if you meet certain numerical criteria and have a certain numbers of ECs, you should automatically be allowed in. </p>
<p>It's disappointing that not everyone who wants to go to an Ivy can go, but it is far more fruitful to look at the many other schools where one can get a truly excellent education.</p>
<p>I think that Robert Shaw was featured in another CC thread where he and this same student was highlighted as how he "repackaged" her. She looks just as Asian as she was before from her picture, and so does he despite the chnage of his name spelling. There is no way to say that the move was what got her into her college other than the change in class rank which is a running issue for families in any competitive school district. Sometimes it can help you to be in a district where few kids apply to the top schools; sometimes it can hurt you. There is always that risk. I know families whose valedictorians, high scorers did not get into top schools who move into better districts or send kids to private schools and crow that he move was what got the younger, less qualified sibling into a school that the older, more talented one did not. Who can say?</p>
<p>I have not seen substancive evidence of admissions bias against Asians despite all of this talk and though I have been looking for a whiff of it. First of all many of the kids do not bother to identify their race unless they are URM. I see all kinds of Asians--adopted, half, Chinese, unusual backgrounds, and I can usually pick who will get in and who will not and it will be the same split as groups of equally academically talented non asian, non urms who really have excellent academic resumes but little other distinction on a college's wish list. There is no big demand for pianists, and a limited one for violinists. If anything, what Shaw does that is beneficial is open up some other venues for these kids that have been pegged in a certain slot by their parents in a way where they end up in a huge stack with, yes, many other Asians and caucasians that are just too similar in resume. Their own parents can't pick out their resume from the stack if identifying info is removed, that is how similar they are. I played that game once when I worked with a group of Chinese families. That was extremely effective in making the point. </p>
<p>If there is some systematic unspoken conspiracy to keep out the Asians, I certainly have never heard of it, and I know some crazy whistle blowers in admissions. Of course, if Asians were better represented in the admissions offices that might make some difference but for all of the Asians in colleges, few apply for those positions. There have been a number of affirmative action suits brought agains admissions practices. If there is any definitive prove, such action should be brought forth. I believe that the way the admission process has evolved with diversity so emphasized, and the the fact that so many Asian kids do fit a category so their apps can be stacked into a "type" has just caused a natural selection that is not favorable to as many of those type of kids despite their high stats.</p>
<p>just wondering, do you have to specify your race on college applications? if you choose not to, will it work against you?</p>
<p>Haven't I read this article before? I agree Jamimom, I think this was discussed a few months ago here.</p>
<p>No. You do not have to specify. Increasing numbers of applicant are refusing to volunteer that information. Swarthmore is now up to 12% "unknown", up from 5% just five years ago.</p>
<p>If you do not specify, the adcoms will just assume you are "white" (unless there is some other tip-off, like your name). Other than the fact that being "white" may work against you, refusing to specify is not held against you. The adcoms are not stupid. They understand the message that is being sent and they understand the legal penalties should they even suggest that specifying your race on a college app is "mandatory". They are fully aware of the Constitutional tightrope they are walking. </p>
<p>The Tri-College consortium (Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Swathmore) has operated a summer orientation program restricted to pre-frosh "of color" for twenty-five years. Earlier this year, Haverford received a threat of a lawsuit regarding the race-based qualifications for this program. Legal council for all three colleges advised that this type of program is unconstitutional based on the UMich Supreme Court rulings and that the colleges would absolutely lose a lawsuit. The program has now been opened up to include white applicants, too.</p>
<p>This type of review is underway at virtually every college and university. Scholarship programs limited to a single race or ethnicity are in serious legal jeopardy. The concern even extends to college funding of "closed support groups" on campus, such as an African-American Student Group in which membership is limited based solely on race or ethnicity.</p>
<p>They do not assume anything if you do not answer. It does not matter--unless you are an international student where country of origin and ethnicity is taken into account sometimes. I know Mexicans of Japanese descent who are now Americans. I know former Kenyans who are Indian (from Indian) originally. I know adopted kids, mixed race kids, you name it. Unless you fall into the URM category, it does not matter. I don't know an adcom that is going to sit there trying to figure out if the kids is of a certain ethnicity by looking at names (reminds me of my mother in law, by the way, LOL) or where the parents are born. Sometimes it is obvious , but sometimes it is not.</p>
<p>I think the interesting thing about the article is the table on the right. It seems that at the selective schools cited, Asian Americans are represented in numbers significantly larger than their representation in the population at large.</p>
<p>So where is the disadvantage?? And before we get to the "Asian Americans perform so much better than other students" stereotype, the national SAT data indicate otherwise. The average white student scores 1063 while the average AsianA scores 1083, a bit better but hardly uber significant.</p>
<p>The article itself describes the extreme lengths some familites will go to in order to game the system. Does anyone realistically believe that she bedded down in Keyport every nite. My guess is that they probably kept their Holmdel home and rented a home in Keyport. Just a guess though. But I would almost bet the ranch that this was the case if there was a younger sibling in the house.</p>
<p>Finally how does Holmdel HS stack up academically and how does the student in the article fit in. It states that she was ranked at about the 20th percentile in her class. The latest SAT data from Holmdel are as follows. Math: average-610 75th %ile-700 Verbal: average-580 75th %ile-660. Quite good by hardly stunningly good with the 75th %ile composite score being 1360.</p>
<p>I might be disturbed by this story but the fact that is such an outlier gives me comfort.</p>
<p>I probably wasn't quite precise enough. They will not assume you are white, but they will treat your application in the same way they would an application that had the "white" box checked. </p>
<p>The app will not be flagged with a URM colored sticker on the outside of the folder. It will compete only for the available "non-URM" slots against other non-URM applicants.</p>