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<p>I agree.</p>
<p>Sometimes, even mentioning one is currently attending college may be detrimental when searching for jobs at the lower levels, at least in my experience.</p>
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Probably not, but who knows? He has his reasons, and it may work out just fine for him in the end. But if you’re going to turn down a $40K job, you can’t then turn around and let yourself get portrayed in the Times as a recession victim. To me that’s the bang-your-head-against-the-desk part.</p>
<p>It sure won’t help him when employers google his name and find a long article about the trials and tribulations of a kid whose parents still pay for everything at age 24, who turned down a $40K/year job because he was too proud.</p>
<p>$40k for an entry level position is not that bad. That is a fairly average starting salary. The $60k number includes people who have been working for years. You have to start somewhere. You have to pay your dues.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>The 60k$ is also an industry average, including those from bad and medium tiered schools. That means kids from the top tiered universities should expect higher salaries when starting out: 60k$. I dont think anyone is going to contest that an Ivy grad should make significantly more than that from a bad public university.</p>
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<p>I’ll be the first.</p>
<p>There will always be “bad grads” from “good schools” just as there will always be “good grads” from “bad schools”. A confidence in brand names and labels is nothing but a fashion haunt. And a weak basis for planning ones future.</p>
<p>Me, too. ^^^^</p>
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<p>I’m more than willing to do so. That whole statement is hogwash.</p>
<p>^^ It’s also not proveable for the first job. The pay band for first jobs by job classification are really quite narrow across the country. Certainly there are job classifications that have higher starting pay than other job classifications, but college to college uni to uni the bands are more narrow and the variations tend to be more general and related to region, industry bonus and pay trends and if relo is needed…not so much which college was attended. There are legitimate surveys that show over time there are pay variations between various colleges but those are 5 years out, 10 years out etc. and in those cases there are certain colleges and unis that generate higher income producers over time but not as significant first job out.</p>
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<p>Yeah, this is actually more what I meant to get out. Maybe it wasn’t obvious that he shouldn’t turn own that job (especially because he had parents willing to support him), but it is obvious that he then shouldn’t complain so much!</p>
<p>“But he learned his lesson.”</p>
<p>Did he? That’s not clear to me from the article. If he’d said “I can’t believe I did that; I sure won’t make that mistake twice,” then I’d have a very different attitude about him.</p>
<p>For the people in the same field and profession, the kids in the Ivies should be paid higher than the kids at a public school. 2 reasons.</p>
<ol>
<li>There are very few “bad” students at good Ivies. The bottom 10% of of the class at HYP are probably in the top 10% of bad public U’s.</li>
<li>There are very few “good” students at bad public U’s. Why attend the bad public school when you can go to top tiered schools? Even if you are poor, you should be able to attend elite institutions if you are indeed a good student (think Merit Aid- kids get like 20k for truly superb SAT scores).</li>
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<p>Absolutely not true. Many good students attend what you refer to as “bad public U’s”. And how do you define this anyway?</p>
<p>Also, many good students who are accepted at elite institutions do not receive enough FA to attend without taking out huge amounts of loans. This applies to a lot of students from middle class homes as well. Lots of stories like this here. $20 K is a very nice merit award, but when a school is $55/year, a lot of people can’t afford the additional amount.</p>
<p>the smugness in this thread is approaching critical mass</p>
<p>“For the people in the same field and profession, the kids in the Ivies should be paid higher than the kids at a public school. 2 reasons.”</p>
<p>how about this: the kids who do the job better should be paid higher. Surely your worldly Ivy mind can understand the reasoning behind it. Don’t get mad at me if I’m wrong though, I’m just a simpleton public schooler :(</p>
<p>whats a “bad” public U in this context. We all know lots of “non bad” ones - The top UC’s, UVA, Michigan, UNC, etc, etc. The better of the flagships. </p>
<p>Then there are the weaker state flagships (I won’t name them, we wont all agree on which they are, but I think we all realize there are several). And the second and third tier 4year publics in each state.</p>
<p>There are probably some really smart kids at the weak state flagships. I mean if you happen to live in a state with a weak flagship, dont have much money, can’t get into one of the privates where money is most available, don’t want to go too far away, etc, the state flagship may be the best choice, despite its being weak.</p>
<p>But are there many Ivy qualified kids at the second or third tier state U’s within a given state? Take my own state of Virginia as an example. We know for sure that there are Ivy qualified folks at UVA and W&M. And probably at VTech, at least in engineering. But are there Ivy qualified folks at GMU, JMU, CNU, UVA - Wise, ODU? Why wouldnt they go to UVA or W&M?</p>
<p>There are probably a few. Drawn to some special program. Wanting to stay REALLY close to home (or needing to commute for financial or other reasons). Or getting some financial offer they wouldnt have gotten at UVA, and really needing that offer.</p>
<p>But still probably not many. I think.</p>
<p>“I dont think anyone is going to contest that an Ivy grad should make significantly more than that from a bad public university.”</p>
<p>“For the people in the same field and profession, the kids in the Ivies should be paid higher than the kids at a public school.”</p>
<p>^What an unrealistic and pompous attitude—obviously from someone who has had everything in life handed to them. You are in for a serious dose of reality when the day comes for you live outside of your little bubble.</p>
<p>To assume that students at public universities are less worthy, less intelligent, or less capable than those attending Ivy league schools is utter nonsence. Perhaps one day you will understand just how wrong you are when you and that student from the “bad” public university are up for the same job and he/she is hired over you. You are in for a rude awakening.</p>
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<p>Back to the original article—I am so tired of capable young people trying to make excuses for everything. I don’t have any sympathy for the guy in the article. He was offered a job–but, refused it because he felt that it was beneath him. This way, he can continue to sit back and live the lifestyle he’s used to–the lifestyle that his parents have worked to achieve. </p>
<p>There is a reason why birds nudge their young to the edge of the nest and give them that push into the real world.</p>
<p>IMO, the reason he is unemployed or got a job offering only $40k is beyond the current dynamics of the economy. In a good economy, hell still have a hard time meeting his own expectations of career in finance because (1) he got a liberal arts degree but was not an outstanding student ( - being on the Deans list at Colgate is close to being a B student); (2) even though majoring in history and pol sci, he probably did not challenge himself in college with quantitative/ marketable courses.</p>
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<p>LOL, what? No. The person who does the best job, who works hardest, who has the best ethics, that person should get the job. I know this will surprise you, but there are scads of intelligent, hard-working students at colleges all across America . . . including some that are STATE SCHOOLS or DON’T HAVE THE BEST REPUTATION. Shocking, right?</p>
<p>As for the kid in the article, what a fool. Personally, I think parents should kick kids out when they show signs of malingering like that. This kid will never grow up until he’s out of there.</p>
<p>Edit: Also, every month that he’s unemployed makes him look like a worse prospect in the eyes of employers. Two years . . . they are going to be asking themselves, “What is wrong with this guy that no one will hire him?”</p>
<p>
The only “elite” private institution I know of that gives significant merit aid to a large portion of its class is USC. What do you know that the rest of us don’t?</li>
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<p>While your reasoning is understandable, I think reality is a bit more complex. For one thing, what does it mean to be in “the same field or profession”? What if you have two econ grads but only one has participated in research in a particular area relevant to the job? What if they combine skills with a double major and the other doesn’t?</p>
<p>As I said in another thread, I’ve found three clear areas that determine the strength of a school’s job recruitment:</p>
<ol>
<li>Strength/prestige in an area of study</li>
<li>Strong sense of community / strong alumni networking</li>
<li>Location near a major employment area</li>
</ol>
<p>devils advocate</p>
<ol>
<li><p>This dudes grandpa reads the Economist. Despite his parents less elite origins, they were clearly aiming “high” for him from the beginning, and he absorbed that. He went to Colgate, probably preppier than the Ivies. I mean c’mon.</p></li>
<li><p>Its not just that the job he is turning down isnt a big firm. Its as a claims adjuster. Given his desire for a more general management career in fin, marketing, etc, its not clear that he isnt right that its a dead end job. Given that he has free room and board, its not clear to me that more full term search isnt as valuable as the 40k plus generic work experience. Depends on what the market there is like, etc. Though it would be good if he networked really aggressively</p></li>
<li><p>He attempted to join the USMC. That hardly sounds like a spoiled brat, unless he has it all figured out that by the time he finished OCS Helmand province will resemble Cape Cod. He MAY be misestimating the job market, but not everyone who misjudges the job market is a spoiled whiny brat. </p></li>
<li><p>Assuming the rest of his resume is good (good ECs at Colgate, etc) his desire to get a job more aligned with his career goals WOULD be a reasonable expectation during a more normal economy, and thus his failure to do so IS a sign of the recession. Not as significant a sign to me, as widespread unemployment among blue collars, or the architects posting on Archinect of how wonderful it was to work for the Census, but well, its the NYT. I mean they post travel articles about places that cost 1000 bucks a night to stay in. If you can’t stand attitudes of entitlement from the privileged, expressed obnoxiously why are you reading the NYTimes? Or, as we say, if you can’t stand the heat, there is a really nice little place on Columbus avenue where you can get a table with a view into the kitchen, but the air conditioning makes it perfectly comfortable, and the wine list is 100% organic and fair trade.</p></li>
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