<p>Is it WRONG to assume that the Ivy educated kid will do the job better than the kid from the bad state U (lets not single out colleges)?</p>
<p>I’d bet 90%+ of the time, the kid from Harvard or Cornell, or Columbia will do the job better. Ivy kids work hard in school and we can expect them to continue to work hard vocationally.</p>
<p>IF bad state university kids are truly SO SMART, then why arent more of them at Wall street, medical schools, law schools, and the white house? Stop making up excuses. Most kids at bad state U’s are bad students. Thats how schools attain a reputation, whether good (say Ivy) or bad (say… lets not give names). Sure there will be a handful of smart kids but they are extreme outliers from the pack. In the ivies, there few to nil bad students (even the recruited atheletes have above average SAT scores).</p>
<p>And for those people who think i will get “reality handed to me,” I will triumph through sheer willpower, instatiable greed, and godlike intellect.</p>
<p>“IF bad state university kids are truly SO SMART, then why arent more of them at Wall street, medical schools, law schools, and the white house?”</p>
<p>given the prominence of Sarah Palin, I must tell you to shut up, lest you jinx things.</p>
<p>I sure will contest that. The person who contributes the most to move the business along is the one who should make the most. Where they went to school isn’t really the point.</p>
<p>Sure. Job performance isn’t just about what grades you get in a classroom. They have to do with hard work, creativity, teamwork and people skills, none of which are exclusive to the elite schools.</p>
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<p>Plenty of “average state u” kids at medical schools and law schools. And were you not aware that Wall St, med school, law school are not the only things that people ever desire to do in life?</p>
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<p>You haven’t traveled all that much, obviously, so let me let you in a secret. The world is not NYC. There are great swathes of the country where a) people are perfectly content to send smart kids to state u’s (the midwest and south in particular) and b) there are actually real people who can’t afford to send their kids to the tippy-top colleges nor can they or should they count on Ivy free rides.</p>
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<p>No, you won’t. No one wants to hire or work with arrogant people. How are you going to treat the administrative assistants or the janitors? After all, they didn’t go to Very Impressive U’s. Will you make sure to let them know how they must be stupid people? That’ll get you real far with the boss.</p>
<p>definition: a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will </p>
<p>Your “godlike intellect” is actually sorely lacking, more like your feeling and willing yourself to your position. Pizza’s correct, the ability to move business forward whether driven by critical thinking skills, personality, an innate ability to add the correct people to the team or half dozen other reasons are the people who get to the top. Personally I think you’re just tossing chum and fishing for fun to see who bites your line.</p>
<p>I think jasoninNY is a high school student.</p>
<p>As far as the young man in the NYT article, he graduated from Colgate in May 2008 - he is now two years out from graduation (if I knew how to underline that or put it in bold I would). He should have taken the offer (and he was lucky to get it).</p>
<p>I clearly mentioned that Ivy students are almost guaranteed to be hardworking (HYP aint no picnic). There would be no reason for them to stop working hard while on the job post degree. The kids who get into Ivies are also undoubtedly bound to have “critical thinking skills, personality, an innate ability to add the correct people to the team” because thats what the admissions is based on.</p>
<p>For the smart kids going to bad Universities, I just want them to do the investment calculations. If the expected benefits outweigh cost, buy the dam college education. Take out loans and apply to Millenium, Coca Cola, Questbridge. The truly smart poor kids will make it one way or another to the ivies. Since the federal government insures the student loans, anyone could get one blind folded. Those “smart” kids going to bad schools are simply poor logistic thinkers with very bad economic skills.</p>
<p>Furthermore, i am talking about Bad state U’s. We are not talking about OK state U’s which are filled with people of average scores and aptitude. In any event, there are outliers. Hell are there dogs that can talk? Yes. Can all dogs talk? No.</p>
<p>Will some stupid people rise to powerful positions? Yes. Does that mean all stupid people will rise to powerfull po$ition$? No…</p>
<p>Will most Ivy kids outperform their counterparts at State U’s? I’d bet my money on it. The vast MAJORITY of kiddies on Wall street and the white house are Ivy or from Elite institutions: even the populist Obama is just an Ivy elitist in disguise. Simply naming specific contradictory instances is meaningless.</p>
<p>Since many people equate success with the amount of money a person makes, I’d say from a mathematical standpoint, anyone who makes above the median US salary is a winner. Of course, reasonable people can see why that’s a very idiotic measurement. Let’s try something else.</p>
<p>If the definition of success is defined by the importance or prestige of the position one holds, then virtually 99% of US society are losers, including many bright Ivy leaguers and cohort at top academic institutions. Again, reasonable people will call me an idiot for using that measurement. Let’s move on.</p>
<p>What about scientific, artistic, athletic, etc. success? Same situation as immediately above. Only a very small % of the US population has achieved such goals so it’s probably just another idiotic measurement stick.</p>
<p>Try other measurements: admission to top colleges? Height? Being able to compute (2008 x 2010) - (2009 x 2009) in 5 secs (hint: answer is -1)? Having a fat bank account? Big house? </p>
<p>By any measurement grads from elite school will be more likely to be successful. Whether by bank or by position, top tiered grads will be in the best shape.</p>
<p>“Whether by bank or by position”? Have you still not realized that there are more career paths in life than banking?</p>
<p>It’s interesting how you seem to measure success by money – it’s rather nouveau riche on your part. I can name plenty of my friends who went to our top 20 school, plenty of former coworkers who had similar elite degrees (both grad and u-grad), and they are currently at home with their children, volunteering in their communities, etc. I suppose, Jason, you would call them “unsuccessful” because the only measure of success is the paycheck?</p>
<p>Are they in the top quintile of tax payers? If so I’d consider them well off. Not as well off as those above the 250k demarcation line of course (the cut off line for upper class).</p>
<p>I’m probably going to regret getting involved in this debate, but here goes.</p>
<p>This list is a bit out of date (2006), and I don’t know if it’s been updated. However, it shows that the CEOs of large U.S. companies were educated in schools large and small, top tier and third tier.</p>
<p>@Lurkness, “well uh… em… .er… those are just 50 people! hardly statistically significant! look at joe schmo who’s just an assistant manager at pizza hut!”</p>
<p>nevermind the fact that the people responsible for ****ing up the world are usually people who went to ivy league schools (Dubya, wall street, etc).</p>
<p>*nevermind the fact that the people responsible for ***ing up the world are usually people who went to ivy league schools (Dubya, wall street, etc).</p>
<p>Elitism combined with testosterone poisoning will do it every time.
;)</p>
<p>Actually it’s a snapshot of what the country is like. As Lurkness says big and small, top tier and third tier. I personally know unemployed Ivy League adults and they aren’t unemployed because of a trust fund. We all have anecdotal stories of success and failure but the bottom line is you will succeed or fail based on your own strengths and weaknesses. If some high school kid wants to argue that in regard to potential kids who go to selective colleges have a leg up on third tier directional students at that moment in time that might be a plausible argument but as an adult I certainly believe that potential doesn’t get you to the corner office…it’s drive, determination and skill. Potential doesn’t even guarantee that you’ll finish the BA at the selective college or the third tier. To argue that selective college kids have more drive, determination and skill is not as easily supported. They may have had the KIND of determination to score big in high school but there is no guarantee that those same kind of abilities carry over into the workplace where many, many factors that do not come into play in high school preside.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that parents who manage to steer their students to selective colleges want to believe that selectivity will continue on through life and their kid will always be in the upper echelon, the selected ones. Kids that go to these school want to believe that the hard work they put in during high school is going to payoff with the record of a steady and higher than average income in perpetuity. No one is going to change the minds of people that have already formulated that opinion or made that decision so we can debate it until we’re blue in the face, we can offer up countless studies that support one side or the other. </p>
<p>Selecting a major is an entirely different argument. Certain majors sometimes lead to certain career tracks and career tracks have to a degree salary ranges so it’s fairly easy to look out on the horizon and guesstimate what your gross earning potential is over a period of time. Entirely different argument.</p>
<p>The original article and the family in that article obviously believe what I’m describing…an undeniable, strongly rooted belief that A leads to B which leads to C along a circumscribed route. Who knows maybe it’ll happen unless that kid in the article sits on his butt for another year then all bets are off.</p>
<p>“This young man needs to grow up. I have no patience for someone who is “too proud” to take a job.”</p>
<p>I agree with Pizzagirl.</p>
<p>You never know who you might meet and what you might learn at a job. It may not be your dream job, but it cold lead to other things. In this economy, a job is a job.</p>