article "How much would you pay to get your kid into Ivy League?"

Parents Forum
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<p>Oh please, is it really THAT hard to understand where the purported data came from and how information gets repeated on the internet. Of course, googling a “IECA 26% percent” will yield the same circular information! This does NOT elevate it to a statistically relevant number worth repeating unless one has a very precise agenda. Because it appears on the web, it must be true is one of the silliest statements, don’t you think.</p>

<p>The bottom line, and one you might have to agree with, is that the source of the information is hardly what you think it was. All you need to do is … read the report I linked to. </p>

<p>Perhaps, just perhaps, we should pay closer attention to what true paid counselors are saying on this issue! If there were 26 percent of students interested in hiring what is still a very small cottage industry, they’d be swimming in clients. Fwiw, have you considered “counting” the number of IECA members and comparing it to the … graduating senior HS class? </p>

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<p>Not all independent counselors are IECA or HECA members. However, over 1.6 million seniors take the ACT every year and about the same number take the SAT. Most students take one, not both. Conservatively, that’s 2.5 million seniors. If 26% of those above the 70th percentile hire a consultant, that’s 195,000 clients a year. I don’t see that. Most of us who do this full time only handle 20-30 seniors per year. It’s a lot more plausible to me that the study authors screwed up their sampling technique (northeastern bias? private-school bias?) than that there are 5000+ full-time consultants hiding around the country somewhere.</p>

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<p>I’m not even willing to pay the application fees when the odds are so low. State schools are fine for us. But then I’m not much of a gambler to begin with.</p>

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<p>Here are my experiences with independent counselors. A few years ago when my oldest was a freshman in high school, the guidance office had a presentation that included a segment from an IC. My wife attended, and she thought it was a good idea to arrange a meeting with this gentleman. I had already done quite a bit of research, so I thought I had a good idea of what we were getting into. We set it up, and after postponing once due to weather we made the 40 minute drive in snowy weather to his office on a weekday night. It turns out that he couldn’t make it, and his associate filled in. We talked and went over our family situation (number and ages of children, employment and income, assets, etc.). When we started talking about the college application process, there was a lot of the lingo that most CCr’s are familiar with (FAFSA, EA vs. ED, etc.). There were several instances when the associate would throw out a term, a concept or an idea, and hesitate with where to go next. I found myself correcting him, and finishing his sentences when he strayed. At one point he commented to my wife on my knowledge of the process. Their services were fairly standard-help student select colleges to apply to, review applications and essays (not write them), and assist with FAFSA preparation. Their fee was based on a flat fee per child, plus an additional amount per year in high school that they worked with you. I do not recall the exact numbers-something around $1000 per kid plus $250 per year. It’s a lot less than the amounts discussed in the article, but it’s not nothing either. The clincher for me was that the fee was only good that night-wait until tomorrow and it was $2000 per kid plus the $250 per year. I felt like I had just listened to a pitch for a time share. I’d rather use that kind of money to buy my kid a reliable used car for his job. (part 1)</p>

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<p>(Part 2) My wife quickly agreed on the ride home that this service did not make sense for us. She also expressed that she was a little surprised at how much I knew, and that the gentleman we met with did not come off as very knowledgeable. I imagine the parents of some of our son’s classmates may have used this service, but I do not know who or what their results were. I do know that 8 out of his class of 50 were attending Ivys. I believe that has more to do with the fact that their HS is a public STEM with some really bright kids.</p>

<p>A year later we attended a seminar hosted by our local soccer club, to talk about sports recruiting and college. One of the speaker was a college counselor, and his pitch was pretty low key. We did not meet with him individually, but I believe some friends of ours did. I do not know if they retained him or not, but I recall that his fees were much more reasonable. </p>

<p>This discussion reminds me of an old Steve Martin bit. “How to be a millionaire and never pay taxes. First, get a million dollars…” The pitch from some of these company’s would go, “First, bring us your 2350/4.0 unweighted gifted student with (hook of your choice), and we can help him/her get into…”</p>

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<p>How do counselors add value? Hanna any thoughts? I have to decide whether to get one. I am not clear how a counselor could help and could use pointers. We never used any tutors or prep or whatever, never felt the need. What do school counselors do (it’s a private school)? </p>

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<p>The internet could have told them that. And without the 10,000 dollar surcharge</p>

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<p>500k can buy you a seat outright. why pay 100’s of thousand for counselors then? </p>

<p>i don’t think an ivy league education is worth 500k though + 250k tuition. </p>

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<p>500k is chump change for an Ivy.</p>

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<p>Disclaimer: I am an independent college counselor. </p>

<p>The reason to work with an independent college counselor is not to get your kid into the Ivy League (or into any particular college for that matter). A college counselor can’t get someone in who would not be otherwise qualified for admission. That is not the purpose of the counselor. As well, working with a college admissions advisor is not just for those seeking admissions to elite colleges. </p>

<p>Why work with a private college counselor? Many students and their families find the college selection and application process overwhelming. A skilled college counselor can facilitate planning, exploring options, and careful preparation to meet the student’s best interests. A major part of the process isn’t just getting admitted, but rather building an appropriate college list. That is something a college counselor can really help with. A counselor can evaluate a student’s academic, personal, and extracurricular background and guide their selection to best fit colleges and building a balanced list, along with assessing their chances of admission to these colleges. An experienced counselor can be a student’s personal resource in identifying colleges that best fit a student’s specific preferences, personality and individual needs.</p>

<p>A counselor can help in developing a time line for the admissions process, and gear it to each individual situation. The consultant can help present the student’s unique accomplishments, talents, and abilities in the best possible way to increase the probability of admission. Guiding the applicant in how to best showcase who they are on their applications, is not the same as molding them. The counselor can assist in every aspect of the application including selection of essay topics, editing of essays and short answer questions, and presentation of extracurricular achievements and academic recognition. He/she can offer suggestions on how to solicit the most effective letters of recommendation from teachers and guidance counselors, as well as suggestions regarding supplemental recommendations. A counselor can suggest ways to make the most of college visits and appropriate contact with professors, admissions officers, coaches, alumni, and students. The student can be guided as to how to continually express interest in particular colleges, often a factor in the admissions process. Many counselors prepare a student for alumni and on-campus interviews through mock interviews and offering tips. If working with a counselor prior to senior year, the advisor can assist with course planning, testing schedule, extracurricular choices, and summer activities.</p>

<p>Many students and parents like having a private counselor who can support them through the college selection and admissions process and who can offer open and honest feedback through every step of the process. There’s always a knowledgable person to bounce questions off of (many arise). </p>

<p>A qualified independent counselor can devote undivided attention, when a school guidance counselor may be assigned too many students, as well as many responsibilities other than college counseling. In my experience, no matter how good a school based counselor is, there is no possible way they can devote the in-depth personal one-to-one attention to every student and parent that an independent counselor can who typically has less clients on their roster, as well as only deals with college advising. </p>

<p>Can families do this on their own and get the same results? OF COURSE! It is not necessary at all to use an independent college counselor. I agree with others who have said that CC is invaluable as a resource. Further, many parents take on a great deal of research and become very knowledgeable and guide their kids through this process. However, for whatever reason, many parents don’t have the expertise, time, or energy. And let’s face it, sometimes it is difficult to work with your own kid and it is helpful to have an objective third party to assist in the process (even though the parents are still involved). An independent college counselor is someone with expertise who can facilitate the process. They don’t get your kid in. That is not the reason to hire their services. But many people find their use to be very beneficial and it has helped them successfully navigate the process. People don’t pay me to get their kid admitted. They pay me for my expertise and unlimited help and advice and generally feel less overwhelmed to have the assistance and discover ways of going about the selection and application process that they may not have been able to do as effectively on their own. </p>

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<p>If this is what college admissions is turning into the whole system needs an overhaul. Happiness does not come from money nor does happiness come from the name brand school. </p>

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<p>I dont find it disturbing at all. If I knew about it and could have afforded it…I would have done it in a heartbeat. I NEVER had an argument with my daughter till college admissions time…and havent had one since. I would have sold a kidney not to go through that.</p>

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<p>mombengalmombengal:
College counselors are used for all types of students and for all types of colleges, not just the Ivy League. </p>

<p>GA2012MOM: yes, one reason many families like using an independent college counselor is because the dynamics of working with their teens on the process can be difficult in some cases and it is less stressful having a third party involved.</p>

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<p>Hey soozievt, thanks mate. It was very helpful to know what the counselor does. So all that packaging doesn’t help in getting in, eh? Or does it? You say that a counselor can’t get a kid in where the kid wants to go, but then why do all the packaging? Couple counselors my friends have used charge 40k plus and they were very unhappy with the service and felt that it was not practical to do all that they were asked to do. Anyway it’s like a stream of consciousness for me as it’s late, thanks for the info mate.</p>

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<p>What I a mean is that the counselor is not there to get a kid into a school he/she might not otherwise get into. The counselor can help facilitate the college list selection and help the applicant through the process to present themselves in the best way possible. But they can’t make the student any more qualified than they already are and into someone they are not. They help the student to present themselves as who they are. Not everyone knows how to best go about that and can benefit from good advice, knowledge, and assistance. </p>

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<p>Very helpful & thorough explanation @soozievt. I would add that some of the counselor’s role is also managing expectations. Reviewing our school’s Naviance data w/o knowing some of the back stories could cause students to think they have a greater chance of admission at some schools than an unhooked applicant really has. (We have a lot of athletic recruits across many sports at our HS. Their admits massively skew the stats of the ED acceptances.)</p>

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<p>My post #71 was a response to a post that had been right before it, that seems to now be deleted. Oh well.</p>

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<p>I just think the whole playing field for college is skewed from the private tutoring of exams to the private counselors. Kids are turning into resume machines and not spending time being kids. What do ACT/SAT scores mean if one student is coached by the parent paying thousands and the other kid goes in and takes it without any preparation? How are applications comparable if one student has had extensive essay guidance and editing and the other kid did it completely on their own? Just my thoughts on the matter. This industry is just raising the stakes at getting into college and making it more of a rat race than it already is and in the process raising the cost of admittance.</p>

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<p>We used a private school admissions counselor few years back. I think the cost was $7000. The two key advice the gentleman gave to us was ‘Don’t be yourself, be what the school wants you to be.’ and ‘Love the school that loves you back.’ The kid found both suggestions rather offensive, and did not follow either. In retrospective, the advice was spot on. Still offensive though. </p>

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<p>We used a college counselor for D2. He has a fairly large operation in CA. Over the years I have referred families to him and we have become good friends. I recently got together with him while visiting CA. We paid him a bit on the high end side, but I was surprised at how much some of those families are willing to pay. Some are paying on a sliding scale in the six figures to get their kid into top 20, 50, 100. He told me, “My job is getting their kid in, I don’t worry about their finances.” He works with the family, not just with the student, which is very different than CC’s mentr</p>