Business Week Article on College Counselors

Parents Forum
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<p>From the June 19th issue of Business Week:</p>

<p>What Price College Admission?<br>
Parents are spending tens of thousands on advisers to shape their kids' game plans </p>

<p>Even valedictorians are finding it hard to land spots at the nation's most selective colleges, so "Ben" wasn't about to take chances. Over the past four years, the New Jersey father of two has spent about $30,000 for guidance from Michele Hernandez, a Lake Oswego (Ore.) college counselor who charges up to $36,000 per student for advice on everything from what courses to take to how to spend summers.....</p>

<p>By Anne Tergesen</p>

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<p>"College admissions officers say such advice makes sense only for students at high schools that lack adequate guidance counseling."</p>

<p>Yeah, except that the people who are at schools that lack adequate counseling most likely can't afford an independent counselor.</p>

<p>Parents who can fit the bill are more likely sending their kids to private schools with great student:counselor ratios.</p>

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<p>Don't just assume that whartonalum. My parents wanted to send me to a private school, and such an option was easily within our means, but I wished to receive a public education. Thus, I have an incompetent guidance department.</p>

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<p>It was simply a matter of time. Where money, in this case significant disposable income, is involved, it was only a matter of time before groups of industrious individuals found a way to separate it from the wallets of the willing. I am not knocking the relatively new private admissions counselor business (clearly they are fillings someone's needs), but when I think of the hard-working, knowledgeable, skilled and compasionate counselor I had at my public high school, I just shrug my shoulders at the situtation today.</p>

<p>The most important question I have is 'would the kids who paid 30K for counseling have gotten into Ivy Brand University anyway?' And by the way, is it only me who thinks that advising a young woman to enter beauty pageants to enhance her appeal to MIT is a bit shallow? That sounds like a lead balloon suggestion from Lawrence Summers.</p>

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<p>I doubt very much that Summers would have made such a suggestion! And who knows what got that young woman into MIT? Very probably, she could have gotten in without entering the beauty pageant.</p>

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<p>Everyone has great and free college advisors. Most of these BW touted 'advisors' have written books available at your local library. You can get their 'secrets' for free. The books are full of profound insights like grades matter, test scores help, ecs distinguish and it helps to write good essays. You can buy the books if you have a need to spend money. Or you can hire them for $30,000+.</p>

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<p>I wonder about kids (and parents) so willing to let themselves or their children be molded and packaged for the purposes of college admissions. My son is a rising senior preparing to apply this fall to colleges. He has strong stats and a strong interest in math/science, and he is hoping to attend MIT or Stanford or perhaps Cal Tech. Though he certainly has some activities and awards that show his math/science focus, I worry that he doesn't have enough, so I urged him this past year to become involved with his school's new math club. However, their meetings conflicted with Spanish Club--something he attends mainly because it's fun, there's food, and his friends are members. His comment to me was, "Why should I give up going to Spanish Club, which I enjoy, just to help my college application?" That was the end of our conversation. If who he is and what he truly enjoys aren't enough to get him into his top college choices, then those schools likely are not good fits for him anyway.</p>

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<p>The reason I flinch when I read articles such as these is the messages which it is sending the students who are the recipients of these services. And I suppose I am disappointed that the admissions of the highly selective colleges are take in by these "tactics".</p>

<p>For an overwhelming %age of students who begin this intense counselling in 8th or 9th grade, the decision is surely one made by the parents. What other pressures and choices are they imposing on their teenagers? And isnt this intense counseling reducing the student to a mere comodity who needs to make chioces merely to improve the resume? Are these students thinking that they are unable to fulfill their or their parents dreams on their own? Are they the slightest bit concerned that the "all important" college essay topic has been chosen and burnished by a professional counselor?</p>

<p>I had a similar reaction when I read about the NYC pre-school "scandel" a few years ago. I wondered how some people have gone so far estray in the quest for status that they are willing to use their children as proxies for the inflation of their own ego or have convinced themselves that their status alone should guarantee that only the "best" is due them and that the best is defined by name branding and exclusivity.</p>

<p>I recently read where Christine Todd Whitman's daughter is a graduate of Gettysburg College, a wonderful college but hardly considered as an "elite" one here. Given CTW's wealth and political status, I suspect that she let her daughter choose her own course in life, had a great teenage life and will lead a very happy adult life because of the lessons her parents taught her.</p>

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<p>"I doubt very much that Summers would have made such a suggestion! And who knows what got that young woman into MIT? Very probably, she could have gotten in without entering the beauty pageant."</p>

<p>Marite, The beauty pageant was only the cherry on the banana split, "Shaw" had the family organize a "moving" charade for the student to attend a school district that was ... less competitive. This is what Shaw -himself the product of a particularly ugly caterpillar to butterfly metamorphosis- had to say about his pupil: "She didn't, and couldn't, stand out among her peers. She ranked in the top 20 percent in the highly competitive school where nearly a fifth of the students are Asian." </p>

<p><a href="http://ivysuccess.com/therecord013005.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ivysuccess.com/therecord013005.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The problem stidents and parents face is that the egregious behavior happens at the extreme ends of the admission process range. On one end -no pun intended- you have countless GC, be from public or private schools, who have become complacent and ignorant of the demands of the "game" in 2006. On the other end, you have the Frank Eggelhoffer of admissions: Cohen, Shaw and other "education wedding" planners. Since they live in a world where $700 per invited guest is not unusual, why not borrow a page from the high-priced caterers? If ducks swimming in a fake pond are de rigueur, why not reinvent the ugly ducklings and propel them to the Shangri- Las of education? </p>

<p>In the middle, you have the thousands of very effective and help*** GC, as well as ... hundreds of private counselours who earn their fees by offering advice to a clientele that is willing and able to pay. For some the math work splendidly: instead of sendingg their kids to 12 years of $15-20,000 a year schools, they use their (MUCH better than average) public school, and use a fraction of the expenses towards someone who can effectively complement -if not compliment- the work of the overburdened GC. In fact, what is $40,000 compared to the tuition paid by MANY middle class families to send their kids to the local "best" privates? If the prize has been defined as an Ivy admission -and often since preK started- why not hire the best? </p>

<p>What is the difference: the line between offering sound -and correct- professional advice and organize outright fraud is probably very subtle. After all, how many Cohenish Met internships are truly "deserved" or even real? The fabrications usually remains unknown until the Cohen of the world insist on using the press for their SOLE benefit. A large part of the recent Kavvyagate can be linked directly to her first "mentor." Of course, as soon as the truth came out, Mrs. Cohen dropped her glowing accolades from the website. I wonder if she refunded the fees to the parents that fast?</p>

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<p>bobk: "I wonder about kids (and parents) so willing to let themselves or their children be molded and packaged for the purposes of college admissions. My son is a rising senior preparing to apply this fall to colleges. He has strong stats and a strong interest in math/science, and he is hoping to attend MIT or Stanford or perhaps Cal Tech. Though he certainly has some activities and awards that show his math/science focus, I worry that he doesn't have enough, so I urged him this past year to become involved with his school's new math club. However, their meetings conflicted with Spanish Club--something he attends mainly because it's fun, there's food, and his friends are members. His comment to me was, "Why should I give up going to Spanish Club, which I enjoy, just to help my college application?" That was the end of our conversation. If who he is and what he truly enjoys aren't enough to get him into his top college choices, then those schools likely are not good fits for him anyway."</p>

<p>originaloog: "The reason I flinch when I read articles such as these is the messages which it is sending the students who are the recipients of these services. ... For an overwhelming %age of students who begin this intense counselling in 8th or 9th grade, the decision is surely one made by the parents. What other pressures and choices are they imposing on their teenagers? And isnt this intense counseling reducing the student to a mere comodity who needs to make chioces merely to improve the resume? Are these students thinking that they are unable to fulfill their or their parents dreams on their own? ... I wondered how some people have gone so far estray in the quest for status that they are willing to use their children as proxies for the inflation of their own ego or have convinced themselves that their status alone should guarantee that only the "best" is due them and that the best is defined by name branding and exclusivity."</p>

<p>My feelings, exactly. I was sickened that the boy in the OP's article was persuaded to take a university physics course instead of going to summer camp. (And I am a physicist.) Childhood is short enough; I would be willing to be that this boy attends a competitive school during the year and works very hard. Wouldn't it be better for him to spend the summer outdoors? My husband and I have always sworn that our sons would not do any academic programs in the summer. We had to eat our words this year, when our 13-year-old insisted on going to CTY this summer and spending 8+ hours per day for 3 weeks studying Probability and Game Theory. But this is his choice, not ours, and he is also spending 4 weeks sailing. </p>

<p>I agree with bobk. If my son can't get into MIT (his current first choice) being himself, then he is better off elsewhere. </p>

<p>originaloog's comments sum up my musings about what certain parents are doing to their kids. I often wonder, when I observe yet another example of psycho-parenting, what the effects must be on the kids. </p>

<p>I don't know what to think about Xiggi's story of the girl who transferred to a less competitive school where she could stand out for the benefit of college admissions officers. I'm disgusted that the girl's HS years were distorted in this way - presumably the educational experience was negatively affected by the absence of academic peers - and even more disgusted by the beauty pageant thing, but in a perverse way I have some hope that this will become a trend. Maybe if competitive parents deliberately place their children in less competitive HS, the pressure on these kids will be reduced to some extent.</p>

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<p>Xiggi, thanks.</p>

<p>I noticed from the article that Kayvaa Wiswanathan was not the only student K Cohen hooked up with literary agents. Hmmm....</p>

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<p>"We had to eat our words this year, when our 13-year-old insisted on going to CTY this summer and spending 8+ hours per day for 3 weeks studying Probability and Game Theory. But this is his choice, not ours, and he is also spending 4 weeks sailing."</p>

<p>By now, I believe we all agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with spending summers at academic programs if that is what the student wants. The problem starts when the sole purpose of attending camps "that will look good" on the college application is ... simply to embellish the application. </p>

<p>However, the blame does not rest entirely with parents or counselors who recommend such activity without discrimination; the biggest culprits are the colleges who DO reward extreme summer academic activities. While we can read the wonderful letter by Harvard Fitzsimmons about student "regaining" their summers -or Marilee Jones's similar musings- the fact remains that the participation in fancy programs is not only rewarded but almost expected. </p>

<p>If the colleges were honest about this issue, they would send a NONE TOO Subtle message by eliminating the participation in paid programs from the comprehensive reviews. Would it be too hard to give DIRECT instructions NOT to list them ... just as they recommend not to send Mommy's and Daddy's scrapbook of YMCA soccer games? </p>

<p>Obviously, with such programs being generous cash cows, this would never happen. In addition, one has to wonder how forked the tongues of the most visible admissions' officers truly are when their own schools offer VERY expensive Summer Programs. Again, parents and counselors do deserve some blame for the "recent" escalation, but let's remember that this group can only REACT to the existing situation. On the other hand, colleges can be proactive and set the tone. Pontius Pilatus, they ain't!</p>

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<p>since i am a kid who does have both a very wonderful in-school dean (my school has about 9 deans and divides our grade of 250ish up amongst them) and wonderful outside of school college conselours, i would just like to add my two cents. at least in my case, i do not feel as if anyone is packaging me or trying to mold me into what the colleges want. i am constantly asked what i want to do and encouraged to pursue my own interests to get me there. i'd be lying if i said i did not feel pressure to get into a top school (mostly from my school and a little from my parents, but also from myself), but i still appreciate my parents doing whatever they feel they could to help me through this difficult process.</p>

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<p>The article focuses on the extreme and very expensive end of the college counselor spectrum.</p>

<p>One friend who is taking her child from private school to public high school is having to adjust herself to going from 1 GC pr 6 students to 1 GC per 150. I had to tell her it was an excellent ratio for a public school. Our GC was a wonderful resource. We certainly did not feel we needed to hire anyone from the outside. </p>

<p>Yet, we have all read on CC about schools with one GC for the whole senior class of 500 or more, or the Geezer GC who is clueless. Students in those schools do need someone better able to focus on their individuals needs. I can only hope that there are college counselors who do not charge an arm and a leg for their services.</p>

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<p>xiggi, it's not polite to talk about the elephant in the living room. ;)</p>

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<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>I beg to differ. They are Pontius Pilatus, publicly washing their hands of the mess they created!</p>

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<p>JMHO, what's wrong with engaging professional help for navigating this extremely confusing, complicated and exhausting marathon of college admission that offers no second chance? </p>

<p>During the freshmen year, we have made several really bad decisions related to my D AP tests, which I strongly regret, but now it's too late (I have received undergrad education abroad, so I knew absolutely nothing about the US college admission process). I wish we had a college advisor that would have told us what to do at that time. </p>

<p>Being a professional scientist with a PhD, I should be able to navigate college admission process, but I still find it mind-blowing and with all research, reading and seeking advice I am often not sure what is the right thing to do. From reading many CC posts, it seems that many members with thousands of posts have the same problem.</p>

<p>Even though I know a lot about medicine, when my child is sick, I'll take her to the doctor. My husband knows a lot about soccer and he is a good player, yet even though he manages my D travel team, they hire a professional coach. Most people use professional services such as valet parking, auto mechanics, handyman, gardeners or music teachers, even though many of those are either not essential or can be mastered by yourself. I consider my D education much more important then any of the above and do not want to gamble her future by relaying on a public school counselor who is busy with other 250 kids. My D works so hard on achieving her goal and it would only be fair to support her the best way I can. Of course I am very involved personally at many levels, however when it comes to college admission, the most productive and most logical way for me to support her is earning money through what I am trained to do and using it to pay a trained and qualified professional in college admission. Sure, my D may be able to get into her dream school by herself (or maybe not), but how would I know this before it's too late? I consider myself lucky for being able to afford a counselor - yet considerably less then college tuition - but see nothing unethical about using one. Sure, it gives her some advantage over other kids, but she and others already have many other advantages or disadvantages related to social or economical status, location, ethnicity, inborn abilities etc. etc And if private couselor does not help, my D will have nobody to blame but herself, high competition or bad luck, but at least I'll have no regrets. </p>

<p>And regarding the comment about steering her off her life course I am not concerned at all- she has always made her own decisions. Applying for a top college was her choice that we respect but did not influence.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
what's wrong with engaging professional help for navigating this extremely confusing, complicated and exhausting marathon of college admission that offers no second chance?

[/quote]
What is wrong with that is that admissions shouldn't go to the highest bidder and that is exactly where this kind of thing is headed. If it takes $36,000 to "navigate this extremely confusing, complicated and exhausting marathon of college admissions," then something is very wrong with the college admissions process. And I'm not sure I agree that there are no second chances. That sort of implies that unless you get into a prestigious undergraduate school, you're doomed. You must live in a very different part of the country than I. Here in Silicon Valleyland there are all sorts of paths to success.</p>

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<p>1Down2togo:</p>

<p>First of all, I don't quite see college admission as an auction - if it was possible to buy a right of entry (and if I could afford it), then my D (and many others) would not have spend so much time studying. </p>

<p>Second of all, I am not sure what makes you think that college counselor costs $36,000, though some probably do. I did screen many counselors and the average package cost is $3,000-6,000, though some charge up to $28,000, but I consider it very extreme. Consultation cost start at $150 (a price of a dinner for four). Most counselors offer several packages depending on what services you choose. Not so unreasonable compared to college cost per se. </p>

<p>Third, all top tier colleges are equally competitive and it is very hard to get into any one of them. So, there is no second chance to get into a top tier college, which IMO is very important for many professional career choices. My husband and I are both professionals working in completely different fields, but both routinely interview college graduates, hire and train interns, so I know this very well. Even though it is absolutely possible to find another path for success, I don't see why you have to limit yourself at the very beginning of the journey. But this is a matter of personal choice - I never met anyone who was forced to get into a top college. I would be very happy if many people would choose “another path to success” - this would limit the competition. BTW, private counselors do not necessarily prepare for top colleges - rather for dream colleges - not always the same thing. Also, if you don't consider top colleges important, why does it bother you that others hire professionals to get into them?</p>

<p>Fourth, I agree that college admission process is fundamentally wrong, but this was not my choice and I am not entitled to change it. Shooting the messenger won't help either. </p>

<p>I hope, this addressed all of your points, Have a nice day.</p>

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<p>"Xiggi:</p>

<p>I beg to differ. They are Pontius Pilatus, publicly washing their hands of the mess they created!"</p>

<p>Marite, my statement was ambiguous. I agree with you as I was trying to say that since they are not Pontius, they should not act like he did. Inasmuch as I respect tneir absoute right to select whom they want as well as establish their criteria as they please, I believe that more transparency would be nice. </p>

<p>I am fully aware that posters such as Ben Jones who have earned our respect for being truthful and honest do not agree that the schools are disingenuous in their stance. I respect their opinion that they HAVE to pick the students who will better fit the school, and that these students just happen to have accumulated all those extra credits. At the risk of being viewed as a naive and simplistic iconoclast, I'll stick to my version that the schools are the ones who could bring back some normalcy in the process as they DO send clear messages. For instance, if MIT were to decide that the mastery of German constitutes a wonderful tool to increase the comprehension of advanced scientific books, AND shared with prospective students that this represents an important asset for admissions, I have little doubt that the AP German or SAT German enrollment would skyrocket. </p>

<p>Ganz bestimmt!</p>