<p>Latetodinner--You are reading way too much into "miss 1600's" story. the most important thing that I got from that example (especially contrasted with the example before her) is that she was lacking intellectual curiosity, whereas the first applicant was not. There are many students who can "jump through the hoops" and get a 1600 or achieve straight A's, but that doesn't mean they have a real love of learning and the ability to bring that spark into the classroom, and that's what these schools are looking for. DD was an "early write" at Williams--did not have a 1600, did not submit supplemental materials but does have intellectual passion in abundance, and was coveted by other schools, so that part really made sense to me. Interesting article.</p>
<p>first at least i made this sleepy thread alive...second getting a 1600 is not easy ..third because miss 1600 couldn't aford to hire some guy to package her with bs doesn't mean she is a wallflower with no love of learning ...anyway ,your use of the word story is my point..this is a story to sell a college..we are so great we turn down 1600s..all of us lesser creatures who don't have 1600 still have a chance if we take tae kwan doe and some on line course... please ... don't any of you have any intellectual curiosity this is coca cola</p>
<p>If anything, this is an article used to impress alums--not prospective applicants. Notice that the article appears in the alumni review.</p>
<p>Latetodinner, did you ever think that this might be geared toward the alums who are trying to get their kids into Williams? If you were an alum, and your kid didn't get into Williams, might the fact that a 1600 student got rejected soften the blow? The less upset you are about your child's rejection, the more likely you will be to continue donating to the college.....</p>
<p>Haon,</p>
<p>
[quote]
Williams does not have access to information regarding which of its applicants are applying to which colleges.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is not true. The November issue of Atlantic Monthly has an article titled "The Best Class Money Can Buy" on Enrollment Management. The schools often do know what other schools to which you have appied. Whether Williams does this is uncertain but their president, Morton Shapiro, has written a number of articles on this topic from an economic standpoint.</p>
<p>Eagle79....Are you referring to after the fact or before?
A link to any of these articles or possibly a quote would help.
Williams sent my son numerous emails after he decided on another school asking where else he applied and what was the outcome.</p>
<p>interesting article & discussion here.</p>
<p>small point..... I remembered seeing the factoid that haon mentioned....from Williams' admissions web site:</p>
<p>"Percent of students for whom Williams was their first- or second-choice college: 93".....still top choice as haon points out. Of course, this factoid might be a bit dated because I noticed another factoid mentioned that 3 SAT II's were needed to apply.</p>
<p>Atlantic article is, unfortunately, only accessible to subscribers; and on a very quick review of some of Schapiro's papers, his topics are generally much more macroscopic & policy oriented than a detailed, admit-by-admit perspective, at least from what I could see.</p>
<p>Nonpoisonivy,</p>
<p>Normally I would post a link but the content is paid for. I went out and bought the magazine and read the article. Generally speaking, using enrollment management, the schools know where else a student is applying. They get this information from the CollegeBoard through a few different mechnisms, one is the 2 reports that national merit qualifiers are allowed to send to schools. Another is where on the list do they fall when you send the CSS profile because all the otehr schools that you appied to that take the CSS profile are listed. Similar with the FAFSA.</p>
<p>I do not know whether or how much Williams uses some of the enrollment management techniques described in the article but it seems to me that most schools know what other schools a student is applying to.</p>
<p>Mikey, Papa and others thanks for the thoughtful responses...I apologize if I have suggested this is about Williams,it is not...the dishonesty I referred to would most probably better be referred to as manipulation and although it referred to the Williams Alum mag article it is not endemic to Williams but widespread...without philosopical dilemna or concern for consequence to individual applicants the universities of our nation practice " enrollment management"..."strategic admissions"..."hire marketing consultants to manipulate who receives scholarships or aid" ...hack into competitors computers and who knows what else ...while at the same time demanding that there applicants be beyond reproach...Mickey's theory that this is a morality play for alum is sound but it still doesn't address the question...would a university's admissions committee reject a 1600 straight A student just to manipulate the worlds/alums opinion of their employer..we are cool too, we reject 1600s ..look,it seems that university's competition amongst each other is the point...not the enrollment of a "passionate" group of "passionate" people who exhibit a lot of passion for their passionate pursuits with of course the correct fit and a 2390 because it rejects 2400s ...obviously, it is more fun to beat Harvard's stats than fill a class...but you can't beat harvard's stats if you don't get as many 1600/2400s as you can[ 25% of H's class above 1580 US News ] so do you think miss 1600 was really rejected...Y/N vote now... passionate class or a chance to beat Harvard ... by the way ,what are 19 year old males passionate about??? reminds me of a story...in my high school health class, taught by a deadpan mumified gym teacher.... gym teacher said, "Males reach their sexual peak at the age of 19"...from the back of the room one of my hormone laden football teammates responded, "you mean its gonna get worse"</p>
<p>"one is the 2 reports that national merit qualifiers are allowed to send to schools"</p>
<p>That's a little disturbing. But that would take a lot of work wouldn't it - you'd have to know a student had qualified, and then request the report? How does that work? Seems like a lot of effort for information that may be misleading. Students name the two schools in May of their junior year and could (maybe even are likely to ) change their mind about top choices before applying in the fall. </p>
<p>I always wondered whether or not schools could tell via the common application site where else you had applied ...</p>
<p>jrpar,</p>
<p>My point is if a school is one of the one's the student chooses to send one of their 2 reports then the school can assume that you have demonstrated interest in them. So, do you accept a 1600/2400 or someone that has demonstrated interest and is statistically close to that same level?</p>
<p>Ok, that makes sense. I misunderstood and thought colleges could obtain this info for all national merit students. I was just searching for the November copy of Atlantic - unfortunately it's been tossed and we only have December!</p>
<p>Eagle79.....I will be hunting the issue down at the library this weekend.</p>
<p>I have heard that the CSS profile or FAFSA is used by the schools to see the order of the schools listed but thats it. Have you seen this discussed on CC before? I was always under the impression that schools didn't know where else students applied.</p>
<p>I feel I have to comment about the swimmer who was waitlisted at Williams. If she had applied early and the coach had wanted her, she would have been in. This past year, the coach used all his spots and still would have liked all FIVE of the girl swimmers who ended up on the waitlist. </p>
<p>The pool ;} was particularly strong this year.</p>
<p>Go Elps!</p>
<p>nonpoisonivy,</p>
<p>Yes, I uderstand that schools use the CSS profile for exactly that, what order are they entered on the form. I have seen this dicussed on CC before. The basic advice is enter them in alphabetical order.</p>
<p>Sought of funny in my son's case. </p>
<p>Brown was at the top of his list on CSS and Fafsa.</p>
<p>He was rejected from Brown.</p>
<p>He was accepted by Williams, Amherst, Columbia, and Princeton where he now attends. (wait listed at Harvard)</p>
<p>The Brown thing always made me wonder if they knew what other schools he applied to. I saw a post last year that said Brown rejects students that they think will reject them.</p>