<p>See "Recipe for Success"</p>
<p>The "AI" is alive and well.</p>
<p>Great article!</p>
<p>I wonder what William's acceptance rate will be this year.</p>
<p>So how exactly is the Academic rating determined. Anyone here wishes to guess/knows the criteria?</p>
<p>RyeCT, if you do a search here on CC, I think interesteddad had a post that roughly outlined the criteria.</p>
<p>Mikey, Thanks, this is a fascinating article. What I think is especially noteworthy is the how adcom crafts a class in addition to evaluating each individual. </p>
<p>The part quoted below reaffirms that the academic rating IS only one piece of the mosaic. I think that too often kids applying to super selective LACs focus too much on the statistical aspects of their profiles and fail to realize how much Williams values the subjective qualities, especially those elusive attributes.
[quote]
Two readers examine each folder independently, without seeing each others comments, and assess them in three major ways. Each applicant gets an academic rating from 1 to 9 that focuses heavily on his or her high school grades, standardized test scores, the rigor of his or her academic program within the context of the school setting and the strength of teacher recommendations. Then there is a non-academic rating from 1 to 6, assessing a students level and length of involvement in school and outside activities.</p>
<p>The readers also assign any of more than 30 attributes that admissions uses to identify exceptional traits. Some of these are easily quantified, such as being the child or grandchild of an alumnus, a member of a minority group, and impact athlete or a local resident. Other more subjective tags draw attention (usually but not always favorably) to something special about a candidate, like a powerful passion or aptitude for scientific research or an interest in getting a non-science Ph.D. Among the most significant of these is the intellectual vitality or IVIT code, which marks a candidate as having extraordinary academic depth/talent or being a classroom catalyst who would have a significant impact in labs or class discussions "
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Go to the main CC web-site. There is an AI calculator there.</p>
<p>I can't help but wonder if the Williams admission's officers supposed subjective struggle to admit applicants with perfect scores [1600] in the article is 1] the fact that they don't want to waste an admit on one who will probably go to HYPS anyway and 2] want the fiction advertised that you with perfect scores are lucky to be accepted by Williams [ as in who wants to belong to a club that wants them] article seems to say Williams wants pre packaged BS like on line courses from Stanford but not a swimmer who gets up at 5am and works out for an hour or two before school ,wins competitive meets, and still has perfect academics. I don't believe it. williams waitlisted that girl because they think she will go HYPS but if she doesn't get in to HYPS maybe she will accept Williams</p>
<p>But it isn't about the girl. They need the best applicant that they believe WILL attend the school. They could admitt an entire freshman class of people like her, but if they all matriculate at different schools then the college would not function.</p>
<p>It is all opprotunity-cost, risk/reward, etc.</p>
<p>Williams sends out a questionnaire to the admits who reject them. They must have compiled statistics over the years which enable them to gage how to handle the perfect scores they receive. My inclination is they admit most of them. I have heard that Brown rejects some applicants who they think will choose HYP. The rejected student in these cases must wonder what just happened when they open their letter or check the online site. Their pain goes away quick with their other acceptances. One way or another the schools end up with amazing freshman classes.</p>
<p>I agree with your responses however I find the dishonesty of the article unsettling....colleges/universities demand honest applications however it seems to be " all is fair in love and war" for them....wasn't Princeton caught hacking into the Harvard admit list a few years ago, using it to decide who to accept [ as in don't take the one accepted to Harvard because he won't come here]..then also I believe two years ago Harvard rescinded acceptances to some B-School students because it got around that you could go to some web site to see if you werre accepted before the official acceptances were sent out...any student who looked at that site was rejected..Harvard said students should have known better..maybe so...these Harvard applicants looked at an open web site and were punished severely...Princeton hacked into Harvards system, just said sorry won"t do it again...I find it hard to believe that an outstanding institution like Princeton finds it necessary to play spy games..but as this was the case this type of activity must be wide spread...especially as there does not seem to be any negative consequence to the institution...i believe it all gets back to a basic question ...are the institutions here for the students or are the students here for the institutions..unfortunately it seems to be the latter...</p>
<p>Do you think earning the IVIT code requires supplement application material?</p>
<p>Escape If your question was for me i don't understand your references {IVIT code ?}</p>
<p>LTD--regarding IVIT, see Momrath's post, #6</p>
<p>I really don't get your remark about dishonesty in the article, and the comparisons to the computer hacking at H and P seem way off the mark. Where are you coming from with that?</p>
<p>simple, article says it waitlists miss 1600 for some subjective BS..I don't think that is true..college is accomplishing two things by waitlisting this person and writing about it for all to see...college is saying to the world of 1600's don't use us as a safe for HPYS..we turn down the likes of you too..think of it as a head game...college knows for 1600's to accept it over a HYPS acceptance the 1600 must think he or she was lucky to get in..in other words we are as selective as HYPS...second the 1600 is probably going to HYPS anyway..college knows this so why not give her a waitlist not waste an admit..this way if she doesn't get into hyps we can pick her up at the end of the process..her feelings be damned...college is using this student for its benefit...sorry, but i thought it was supposed to be the other way around...and if i am correct it is dishonest.....Princeton hacks into harvards accept list for " selective admission" purposes..it has been statistically shown many col/unv are playing this game.... again, a human being may be accepted ,rejected or waitlisted not for merit but because of an institutions desire to manipulate a situation...the statement that it all works out in the end etc doesn't address the issue of its inherent dishonesty...i brought up the harv b-school example to show what that institution does to students who did a lot less than Princeton hacking into H's computer system ... I also believe that grades being equal Sat scores mean more than schools want to admit...i believe every college would love to have Harvards Sat stats notwithstanding all the EC talk...for all the talk about dime a dozen 1600s..there were only about 900 1600s nation wide my year..most colleges are not turning them down unless it doesn't think it can get them...Harvard has the best stats year after year because it takes more than its fair share of those 1600s ...passionate ECs don't show up on any rankings stats..i am just asking for as much honesty in the process as is expected of me</p>
<p>IVIT is in the above quote. Intellectual vitality, a subjective designation given by the admissions board.</p>
<p>simple, article says it waitlists miss 1600 for some subjective BS..I don't think that is true..college is accomplishing two things by waitlisting this person and writing about it for all to see...college is saying to the world of 1600's don't use us as a safe for HPYS..we turn down the likes of you too..think of it as a head game...college knows for 1600's to accept it over a HYPS acceptance the 1600 must think he or she was lucky to get in..in other words we are as selective as HYPS...second the 1600 is probably going to HYPS anyway..college knows this so why not give her a waitlist not waste an admit..this way if she doesn't get into hyps we can pick her up at the end of the process..her feelings be damned...college is using this student for its benefit...sorry, but i thought it was supposed to be the other way around...and if i am correct it is dishonest.....Princeton hacks into harvards accept list for " selective admission" purposes..it has been statistically shown many col/unv are playing this game.... again, a human being may be accepted ,rejected or waitlisted not for merit but because of an institutions desire to manipulate a situation...the statement that it all works out in the end etc doesn't address the issue of its inherent dishonesty...i brought up the harv b-school example to show what that institution does to students who did a lot less than Princeton hacking into H's computer system ... I also believe that grades being equal Sat scores mean more than schools want to admit...i believe every college would love to have Harvards Sat stats notwithstanding all the EC talk...for all the talk about dime a dozen 1600s..there were only about 900 1600s nation wide my year..most colleges are not turning them down unless it doesn't think it can get them...Harvard has the best stats year after year because it takes more than its fair share of those 1600s ...passionate ECs don't show up on any rankings stats..i am just asking for as much honesty in the process as is expected of me</p>
<p>Actually....</p>
<p>As I am quite familiar with admissions at both Harvard and Williams, I feel compelled to chime in here.</p>
<p>First, Harvard rejects the majority of its 1600 applicants. Miss 1600 will most likely be receiving rejection letters from HYPS. </p>
<p>You are partly correct in your assessment. Williams was using this case to demonstrate that 1600 scorers are not sure fire admits. However, the majority of 1600 scorers are admitted to Williams. I also know that it is very rare for an applicant to be rejected/waitlisted at Williams and accepted to Harvard. Your reasoning suggests that Williams actively plays a strategic game where they reject students who are searching for bigger and better places. If this were true, we would see far more students receiving acceptances to HYPS and waitlists from Williams than we currently do. The Williams adcoms recognize that certain students are less likely to matriculate than others; however, they do not play the yield games like some other schools. </p>
<p>Secondly, many Williams applicants do not fully grasp its selectivity. I attribute part of this to Williams' relatively weak name recognition. I recently heard a second-hand story of an admissions officer informally saying something to the extent of ,"We could fill three classes with students who consider us a back-up school." In other words, Williams is not truly a safety for many students who consider Williams a safety.</p>
<p>Considering that legacies, URMS, athletes, musicians etc comprise a sizeable fraction of the student body, there isn't a whole lot of space for students who are "only academic."</p>
<p>OK. I think you're way over-estimating the value of SAT scores. Plenty of kids with 1600 SATs are rejected by some top schools, and yet accepted by others. The article began and ended with two applicants with 1600 SATs, one got WL, one accepted. The SAT is important, but once it's up to a certain number, other factors start to weigh much heavier. </p>
<p>The business about computer hacking by Princeton admissions and by some HBS applicants is an entirely different matter from an admissions committee trying to put a class together by looking at the applications that have been sent to them for their review.</p>
<p>Edit: as to what Mikey says, yes, my Miss 1600 was rejected by HYP. To a certain extent, the reverse logic applies to LTD's comment--Just about everyone who gets a 1600 probably applies to HYP, just because they got a 1600--so those schools have a lot more to sift through than other places.</p>
<p>latetodinner,</p>
<p>I think what you say is pretty clearly not true. </p>
<p>Williams does not have access to information regarding which of its applicants are applying to which colleges. Consequently, for them to be doing what you accuse them of doing, they would have to either guess at where their applicants had also applied to (which they obviously cannot do), or reject uniformly the top of the applicant pool. Given the demonstratable strength of the Williams matriculating class (including a large number of 1600s), Williams is obviously not rejecting their best applicants. </p>
<p>Furthermore, for particularly strong applicants (ie: those Williams thinks might also be considering HYPS), Williams has a specific process--the early write admit. Williams admits these students slightly ahead of the rest of the RD admits. </p>
<p>Finally, as the top LAC in the country (along with Swat and Amherst), Williams doesn't have to stress too much about its admits. The vast majority of students are at Williams because they want to be at Williams--I don't know anyone who considered Williams a safety school or a low choice on their list. I believe the official statistic (although don't quote me on this number) is that Williams was 98% of students first or second choice. Whether that's the exact number of not, Williams was a top choice for a huge majority of its students.</p>