Article: The challenge of being poor at America's richest colleges

Parents Forum
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<p>Good story mountaingoat. Your daughter is going places.</p>

<p>“who are thinking there is third world level poverty on the Harvard campus”</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, this is certainly a possibility. The top schools admit 10% internationals and those admitted have access to full financial aid, at least at Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Dartmouth, Yale (?). I read a story about an admitted student from India at MIT being bought his flight ticket because his family income amounts to $3200/year. Apparently travel assistance is provided to internationals if they can’t afford it.</p>

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<p>Well, if admitted students truly don’t have any budget for basic needs such as food, shelter, and clothing on these campuses that needs to be rethought. That’s not really a class issue, though. That’s unthinkable.</p>

<p>Yay mountaingoat’s kid!</p>

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<p>The article is spot on. When I went to college, though I was not “poor”, there was a distinct income disparity among familes with mine in the lower echelons. When one of the girls in the hall was inviting kids to come to some get together at her parent’s home, airfare, getting ther, was a definite issue for me, and not for a number of my friends. Going skiing, another high cost thing. Checking out NYC for a weekend. again, took money. When my class mates got married, I remember choking on the cost of the bridesmaid attire and the cost of going to the weddings, on my limited income. I could not ask my parents for that kind of money, and others comfortably could. </p>

<p>My son was hit with this when his cousin who went to the Job Corps rather than college , in my son’s college town came to visit. My son has been on a what he considers a tight budget, and had to take out loans to do what he wanted to do last year, and it has been painful repaying it, which he has done. But his cousin, literally had NO MONEY. None. Not for a soda at McDonalds, no fare for the buses (which college kids get for free there). They couldn’t do a thing that cost money, unless my son paid for it. </p>

<p>My kids are very spoiled in that they have had to learn not to grab something at Starbucks or whereever that takes a swipe of a card, packing lunch, planning out gas miles and things like that as we did not have to live that way. My parents did, and so I’m not so far from this. But, yes, it is tough when you don’t have extra money and your classmates don’t have to think about it. And those other points in terms of how to get the resources from the college are valid too. There should be some special counseling courses for those who need help that way, to give specific advice on how to get through college on a tight budget, and how to get the funds needed for the important things like job interviews, health care issues, emergencies as they arise. A school should be aware of these issues when they are providing hefty financial aid for students and have kids who are going to need more support. </p>

<p>I want to add that many of us who have supported our children so generously may find that they are not going to be able to sustain that standard of living on their own. I was stupid about that. I’ve been having a heck of a time weaning my older ones from a luxurious life style that none of us even recognized as such. We go into Manhattan, for instance all of the time, and it’s a rude shock to realize that it’s about a $20 round trip taking the train, and not something easily affordable for most people. Lose your cell phone, yeah, you have a big problem. My son had to be taught deductibles and copay for insurance. He though medical care was magically free, since we had paid for all of those things until he was well out of school. </p>

<p>In many university towns, it’s the foreign grad students who often show what it takes to live on a student budget. Our kids could take a lesson from some of them-- I don’t mean the wealthy one, and there are many of those too. </p>

<p>My son 's room mate is an only child, and he can see how money makes things so much easier, and what a difference it makes in terms of making things non issues. Even then we are still looking at shades of upper middle class/upper incomes. When you are with those who truly have little or no money, it’s a whole other story.</p>

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<p>" I tell them she was just always smart and I didn’t really have much to do with it; it was always just a trajectory she was on. " - Mountaingoat</p>

<p>Yes you did . . . . and it shows. Nice.</p>

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<p>Among quite a lot of other information, Harvard has this nifty publication, called “Shoestring Strategies for Life at Harvard: A guide for students on a budget,” put out by the FA office: <a href=“https://college.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/ShoestringStrategies.pdf[/url]”>https://college.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/ShoestringStrategies.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>This is a problem in every day life; yes, there is a terrible challenge of being poor. It’s still there at the colleges giving the most generous packages. But be awae that only a teeny tiny fraction of kids even have to suffer this issue. Most of those who are poor, and go to college, do so at schools that don’t have penny one to address any of these issues. Too bad if you have rotton teeth, medical problems, can’t get to class, can’t pay your tuition. They don’t even meet need, most of the time and are throwing some kids under the bus (which they have to pay for to ride) by encouraging loans that will be even more problematic in the future. </p>

<p>It’s always a challenge to be poor.</p>

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<p>I thought college was a step toward economic success. Poor kids in college shouldn’t complain because they can’t go on a ski trip, they should plan their careers out so their kids can go on ski trips.</p>

<p>It sounds like it’s not enough to have integration. Now, there must be equalization of lifestyles so no one feels bad. Now, a kid can’t feel good because they made it, they have to feel bad because they made it and don’t have everything equal to everyone else.</p>

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<p>Well said COTH, the drop-out with loans problem is enormous.</p>

<p>We know a kid who went to a mid-tier private school and his family was so proud. Until two years in he couldn’t get any more financing and now works at Starbucks and is in some kind of online college with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt. That’s not better and his family is not poor.
Well, they weren’t before that whole thing happened.</p>

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<p>I do remember going to grad school in England and meeting several guys on scholarship from Africa who couldn’t afford winter clothes – and it got cold there in the winter! I would imagine that might be an issue in other cold climates, like Massachusetts. Hopefully these schools have some mechanism in place to address something like making sure people at least have a winter coat in the winter.</p>

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<p>I don’t think income disparity is something many families take into account when choosing a college. A lot of not rich kids are probably be surprised to find out that life at a dream school is not so dreamy once they realize they simply can’t afford the perks of their peers.</p>

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<p>No one disputes that being poor is an extremely difficult existence.</p>

<p>But college has never been cost-free in this country. It is generally accepted (now there are exceptions due to generous FA programs) that one will have to pay something in order to go college. So if you have -0- money and absolutely no way to get any, then you cannot go to college. People have always worked to put themselves through college, and probably most people still do today.</p>

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<p>The student in the linked article from Colby was homeless and indeed didn’t have these things. Her big problem freshman year was where to go during winter break when dorms closed. She literally had no home to go to.</p>

<p>She took time off, returned, started a bunch of programs for poor students there like recycled gently used school supplies and support groups and such, and graduated in 2012.</p>

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<p>My friend who has struggled mightily with finances, not officially poor, but definitely not able to afford private college for her kids, and has been in trouble financially for many years, admittedly for living beyond her means, has children in college right now. The one who is going to the full need met school is struggling, yes, in a financial way, because she is not used to being the poor kid, and she is, at this school. What she and her parents have to pay, is very hard to raise, and even with loans, it’s a rough go. They are also trying to keep the loan balances as low as possible. But, yes, every little thing is an issue when it costs money, and it is a killer. </p>

<p>But the ones at home, the college kid commuting is having issues too. No car to commute, and that college doesn’t give penny one for anything. A lot of poor students, so you get nothing for not having money. Too danged bad. Come back when you have the money. No resources for much of anything. The differences between amentities is enormous when comparing the two colleges. So as much as the kids at the full ride or generous schools may see the disparity more, they are overall better off than at schools where they are the norm. Very little if anything in resources for them. </p>

<p>It’s not about what is necessity and luxury, Madboutx, there is that extra feeling when you are the odd one out because you don’t have the money. Makes you feel poorer. Before we went to college, I always felt like my family was more than financially secure, as we lived well among our peers. So few people had luxuries, that it was not a big deal. When you go where you realize that your are in a totally diferent situation, day, in and day out, it can really become an open sore. Ok, no ski trip. Can’t buy on the shopping trip, can’t go to the holiday get together, can’t do this that or the other. It’s an in your face poorness that is the issue here. I’m saying that even while I acknowledge that most of these kids are better off than being with their peers in their financial brackets at local schools that have little money and where most kids are strapped. Not saying these kids should be subsidized more, either at the schools where there is that disparity, as this is something better addressed and dealt with now. As I said earlier, my kids had a tough time stepping down from the standard of living we gave them. They never had to do things like make lunch day in and day out. Eat out only when you’lve saved up for it. Yeah, they were spoiled. </p>

<p>It doesn’t ever end. My neighbors, two of them anyways, did not buy their homes. Parents gift. Yes, and one has a parent who owns a contracting business, so upkeep is no issue. Parents pay for college and private school of the grand kids too. It’s a whole other lifestyle than when you have to juggle those balls yourself.</p>

<p>So it’s not so much just giving goodies out as teaching kids to deal with the lack of funds and showing them the resources. For some things there should be funds made available in the university setting too. It’s a balance.</p>

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<p>At the Yale Freshmen Convocation, Yale’s new President, Peter Salovey, spoke of the issues discussed in this thread. </p>

<p>He spoke of the “last taboo” in the sense that students were loathe and ill prepared to discuss among themselves their financial backgrounds. Left unspoken it is easy for even the most thoughtful individual to not be fully empathic in the context of new, budding friendships and suite-mate situations. He encouraged students to give it a try.</p>

<p>See the video here - start at the 57:30 mark</p>

<p>[Yale</a> College Freshman Assembly 2013 - YouTube](<a href=“Yale College Freshman Assembly 2013 - YouTube”>Yale College Freshman Assembly 2013 - YouTube)</p>

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<p>Even the most generous FA schools (HYPS) do expect a student work earnings contribution.</p>

<p>Perhaps the difference is, in a past generation, a student with no parental support (not even living at home) and no financial aid grants or scholarships could work his/her way through a state university, since the school costs were much lower, and part time jobs for high school graduates would be able to cover the living expenses (maybe needing a small student loan). Even private universities were much less expensive (in inflation-adjusted terms) than today.</p>

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<p>I also agree, that “the times, they are a changing” and regarding costs of living, it’s not always in a good way. My son who really needs to watch very carefully, every penny he spends, and should not be spending many of them, has pressures even among the low income crowd. Many of them eat breakfast out and get a latte, spending an hour’s wage before even earning it that day. This sort of thing was not so prevalent when I was that age. Also the Iphones, computers and other things that have become a necessity, and how cars are so needed in many situations. So many things to distract you from the necessities. It’s so much easier these days to spend money needlessly. It 's really scary.</p>

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<p>“Perhaps there is “more equality” at Princeton because there are fewer students from lower income backgrounds – 12% on Pell grants versus 30% at Columbia.”</p>

<p>You didn’t address my point at all. You don’t need to spend much money to be ‘socially active’ at Princeton whereas many have argued that this is the case at Columbia. I also don’t believe Columbia has anything approaching Princeton’s full tuition grants / grants to international students. Princeton gives around half of its students average aid packages of ~35k. Yeah, you would NEED a Pell Grant or something to go to Columbia where the financial aid sucks and the total cost is around 65K compared to other schools’ 50-55k. (That 5K Pell Grant sure helps cover that 10K gap. Basically the government is subsidizing Columbia’s tuition increase, Wal-mart style. Lee Bollinger, etc. are a bunch of *******s.)</p>

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<p>I’m not an expert on this, but from what I’ve read, one can substitute outside scholarships or loans for the work requirement. My memory from H’s website was that 2/3 of students work, but I wasn’t clear whether that meant 2/3 of all students or just the majority who are FA recipients. I assume it meant the latter.</p>

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<p>keesh,</p>

<p>That was a timely speech, thank you. My D went to Yale, and while she seemed to have a humungous number of friends (maybe all Yalies do - it feels like an incredibly friendly place), her closest friendships were with women from upper-income backgrounds. From what I could discern, they were wealthier than we are, but really there is no way to know that for sure.</p>

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<p>Madaboutx, I don’t think anyone thinks colleges should subsidize ski trips-- you are setting up a straw man’s argument. But there’s a difference between kids knowing that their classmates go skiing, jet off to an Island when the weather gets cold, and have art collections at home, and having a campus culture where kids who can’t participate in what is normalized college life feel marginalized.</p>

<p>And I don’t think this is an Ivy vs. everyone else problem. I’ve known kids on full aid at some of the Ivies who feel very much a part of campus life and culture, despite the income disparities, and kids at Public U’s who feel like the only student in the dorm who didn’t get a jeep or a cute sporty vehicle as a graduation gift… and Mom and Dad back home share a rusted 12 year Toyota to get to work, so no point in complaining…</p>

<p>Nobody is suggesting that colleges take up a collection so poor students can ski.</p>