<p>Interesting article that shines a light on the myriad challenges poor students face even when they have the aptitude and intellect for college.</p>
<p>This is a really informative article, especially for parents and kids that don’t understand the experience of those on lower rungs of the economic and social ladder. I put a link to the article last night in this cc thread:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1429369-study-says-many-highly-talented-low-income-students-never-apply-top-colleges.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1429369-study-says-many-highly-talented-low-income-students-never-apply-top-colleges.html</a></p>
<p>I hope it is enlightening.</p>
<p>I wish we could post this link in every thread where people are complaining because poor students have it easy. </p>
<p>No, we don’t. Except for the TIPPY TOP colleges, we’re not getting enough aid to cover our expenses. We don’t have the safety net to fall back on that middle-upper class kids do. We have parents who can’t comprehend 100k worth of debt. We have parents who think we’ll be making 6 digits right out of college. </p>
<p>It’s so frustrating. I’ve been on here a long time and many people just don’t understand what it’s like to really be poor. The privilege is astounding. I wish everyone would read this.</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes, I am so sorry. We are poor too but it’s thanks to downward mobility on my part and I know that my daughter has huge advantages being the daughter of a college graduate who had a middle-class upbringing. I’ve tried to make sure she sees how hard it is for kids that really have to go it alone, carrying all kinds of baggage. Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Thanks, old. I’ve been lucky to overcome because of great parents and being lucky enough to go to an incredible high school. But most of my friends where I’m from originally are not that lucky. I only know two other full Pell kids who are in a top 100 university and only a few that will go beyond a CC. I know there are plenty, but we just had such a terrible school system (where I first lived) that there was no way most were going to a top U. They just don’t have that foundation. It just drives me nuts to see people say “I wish I was poor so I couldn’t go to school for free.” or anything along those lines.</p>
<p>And no reason to be sorry :). It’s made me who I am today and I wouldn’t have it any other way.</p>
<p>It’s not just the fact of having no money, it’s the lack of access or experience that many of these kids have to deal with - like the girl in the article who had no family to help her unpack or jumpstart her car, or not knowing how to negotiate the financial aid process. I find it overwhelming at times and I have the benefit of having my own college degree. I can’t imagine how difficult it is for a first generation student.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t forget what most posters’ notion of “middle income” or “middle class” is.</p>
<p>Or the lack of understanding why overtly pre-professional majors are so popular among more typical college students (i.e. not those from high income families attending highly selective colleges), in comparison to the liberal arts which may be seen as a risky or unaffordable luxury for those who have the parental safety net to fall back on after graduation.</p>
<p>sally305 – Thanks for posting this. I would also point out that contributing to the problems of all three of the young women have been less than desirable boyfriends. I’ve seen so many high school students who would have been much better off if they had concentrated more on their studies and held off on dating for a few more years. However, in families that are already struggling with finances and/or dysfunction, children will often settle for relationships that will sidetrack them from their studies because they crave that affirmation and stability that they are not getting at home.</p>
<p>Although it does not seem to apply to the specific young women described in the article, I have seen situations where families of lower socioeconomic status encourage their kids to form serious relationships with a boyfriend or girlfriend as early as high school. It’s the pattern many of the parents followed in their own lives, and its incompatibility with college is something parents may not anticipate.</p>
<p>During my daughter’s senior year in high school, I was hospitalized for a few days, and I spent a lot of time talking with my roommate, a very pleasant woman from a lower socioeconomic background. One day, the conversation turned to my daughter. My roommate was genuinely concerned that my daughter, at 17, did not have a boyfriend. She asked whether my daughter had any kind of problem (such as shyness) that was standing in the way. It would never have occurred to me that a lack of a boyfriend at 17 was a problem. In fact, I was relieved that my daughter didn’t have a relationship that could become awkward when she went away to college. But my roommate didn’t see it that way. (She also did not see why anyone would want to go away to college, but that’s a different story.)</p>
<p>Very interesting take on one of the more distressing problems we face trying to match the right students to the right schools as we work to maximize social mobility. Schools that are committed to finding talented kids in tough social situations have got to provide the support systems. It takes more than a scholarship and some loans. The programs that identify these students in junior high and get them into college prep programs have had some success.</p>
<p>A very frustrating story. I saw plenty of obstacles, hurdles and when I read this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>All I could think of was, "You a$$hole! standard methodology for who? Advocate for herself how? </p>
<p>Aside from that, the story is just so full of bad decisions. Some better guidance would surely have helped in some cases, but many of those bad decisions were just that.</p>
<p>I read that article and wanted to gag. “Standard methodology” is a euphemism for “we make it up as we go along.” I got zero financial aid from Emory for my daughter, despite have an income that declined from one year to the next and was in the anemic 5 figures. The reason? “We think you’re hiding assets.” The fin aid counselor actually said that. My recourse? “You can appeal.” I sent over 150 pages of documentation showing the decline in income, assets, and increase in debt. By any objective measure, our financial situation had deteriorated. Their response? No change.</p>
<p>I don’t think appealing would have altered the outcome for this poor girl.</p>
<p>One discrepancy the article mentioned is the criticism of “undermatching” and then decribing the economic difficulties of the student who went to Emory.</p>
<p>For some students, a “reach” school may not be the most affordable. If the student does not graduate, he or she may be left with considerable debt and no degree. The college that provides good financial aid and is where the student can access a support system may be the better choice than selectivity.</p>
<p>I read both articles and first of all I have to point out that college costs are ridculous and if society wants more people attending college, it has to become affordable for everyone. We’re middle class and can’t afford it, especially now that my husband’s employer closed and he’s out of work. We were paying for our older daughter as she went along (at the cheapest state university in Washington). I don’t know what we’ll do next year with two in college.</p>
<p>Second, it seems all the girls in the first article made some bad decisions which, I realize, possibly come from the adult examples they’ve had in their lives. I have to give kudos to their high school teacher/counselor who appears to have followed-up with all of them throughout college. That is going way above and beyond in my opinion.</p>
<p>My youngest daughter is a senior in high school and she thinks there should be a required personal finance class in high school. I think that would have helped most of the girls in the first article. Maybe they would have realized the consequences of taking out loans–especially if they didn’t ever earn their degrees! That would have also taught them not to charge too much on their credit cards or to let a boyfriend make charges on a credit card or give bank account information to a boyfriend.</p>
<p>Regarding the second article - of course they don’t apply to selective colleges - they don’t think they can afford it so why bother. If they don’t have good HS counselors they won’t know that the application fees can be waived and that the amount of aid could make the costs similar to a state school.</p>
<p>I think the most interesting part is the whole concept of “advocating for yourself.” I think from a middle and upper middle class standpoint, it’s natural to be able to advocate for yourself - to be able to raise your hand and say, “Can you make an exception for this, there are extenuating circumstances?” or “Can you help me understand that?”, with the worst thing being - that they say no. It seems to me in reading these and similar stories, that there is a lower-end problem with the concept of advocating for oneself.</p>
<p>Enjoyed the article, thanks for posting it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think Malcolm Gladwell or someone else wrote a really intriguing article about this. I need to find it.</p>
<p>Why even look at Emory $$$$$ when you have great UT $ for much less right instate. Why not read 17 emails? Why keep a loser boyfriend around? The biggest enemy of the poor is themselves and their unfocused, there are no rules or deadlines ways. Unless we appoint a desinated handholder for each one the results are not likely to change much. A relative few with some focus and self-worth will get the hell out and make themselves #1 priority. Rest–not such a good outlook.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think the article shared the specific FA offers she had but it appears it would have been a lot cheaper to attend Emory than UT, had she had assistance working with the FA office there. Even with the mistakes made, it appears to have still been cheaper than UT. Unless UT is free. </p>
<p>Apparently the 17 emails were sent to an Emory email account she hadn’t learned to access yet. </p>
<p>As for the boyfriend, she did leave him to go to school in Atlanta. You’re confusing 2 of the 3 girls in the article, perhaps.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is very, very true. Annette Lareau wrote a book based on her study of this behavior (or lack thereof) in children from various backgrounds. The book is called Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life.</p>