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<p>Also, these kids can afford the occasional pizza, even if they can’t afford ski trips.</p>
<p>Bay, it takes a special sort of personality to be able to go along to a restaurant with friends and not order food because you’ve already eaten your prepaid meal in the dining hall – and it takes a special sort of friends to feel comfortable with it. I’m impressed with your daughter, but I don’t know how many other kids could pull it off.</p>
<p>I really dislike how accusations are slipped into some of these comments. Given that covetousness is one of the sins forbidden by God in the Ten Commandments, I need to challenge that implication in particular. Don’t trivialize the issue by continuing to suggest this topic can be reduced to the poor student’s envy of his rich classmate’s money and possessions. It has little or nothing to do with coveting or with the material things per se. It’s about culture shock, alienation, exclusion, discomfort, awkwardness, lack of social knowledge, and all the other feelings the poor student transplanted completely out of his element will have, that the rich kid arriving at HYPS from an elite prep school will not experience. Yes, it can be about lack of money, but not because the kid wants the money, but because money is needed to join in what’s going on and not stand out as different–whether it be a trip, an outing for pizza, or a gift exchange.</p>
<p>My son just told me about the fork thing when he came home for Thanksgiving. I knew, of course, but we negligently skipped that lesson during childhood. </p>
<p>Really, some of these concerns are getting pretty trivial.</p>
<p>But some people don’t think that not knowing which fork to use is trivial. :)</p>
<p>TexasPG, you might want to disregard what I say, since I’m one of those people who cares about The New Yorker, but I would suggest that anyone who loudly proclaims the cost of a trip they took to acquaintances is a boor.</p>
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<p>Thank you. I’d like to add that the students that my Ds encountered at their elite colleges (with one or two exceptions), were amazing. Students at these schools seemed truly comfortable with each student doing what felt right to them. Very tolerant, very inclusive. The high school judgmentalism and cattiness just was not there.</p>
<p>OK, Bay, what if they want to go to a movie? Are you going to say he can have somebody describe it to him after they return? I mean, come on.</p>
<p>GFG says it well–what we feel sorry for is the kid who is left out because he can’t afford to do what other kids are doing. For a kid who is really poor, this may happen quite a lot, even if the other kids are considerate. And sure, a kid who can cope with this is admirable. But I still feel sorry for him, because he doesn’t get to do all those fun things that the other kids can do.</p>
<p>Consolation - I am very happy my kid now knows which fork to use as well! He didn’t attend a lot of fancy dinners in high school. Here’s hoping there are more in his future.</p>
<p>A movie might be out of the question, however, in the 9 years of undergrad education I have paid for so far, none of my kids ever went to an off-campus movie during the school year, so I’d say that example is far-fetched. :)</p>
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<p>My son, who comes from the socioeconomic group that can afford the occasional pizza or movie but not ski trips, went to our state university. He said that one thing he quickly learned there was that there were extreme differences in what students could afford. </p>
<p>In his social group at college, people avoided suggesting forms of entertainment that cost money (including pizza and movies) because some members of the group couldn’t afford them, and nobody wanted to single those people out and make them feel different. The group spent a lot of time watching DVDs or playing video games in people’s rooms because everyone could participate. Or they would attend free events on campus. And nobody ever suggested going to a restaurant instead of eating a prepaid dining hall meal. </p>
<p>I wonder whether wealthy students at elite colleges could show the same sensitivity that came naturally to these state school students.</p>
<p>I feel the need to quote from Jane Eyre:</p>
<p>""You ought to be aware, Miss, that you are under obligations to Mrs. Reed: she keeps you: if she were to turn you off, you would have to go to the poor-house.’</p>
<p>I had nothing to say to these words: they were not new to me: my very first recollections of existence included hints of the same kind. This reproach of my dependence had become a vague sing-song in my ear; very painful and crushing…Miss Abbot joined in–</p>
<p>‘And you ought not to think yourself on an equality with the Misses Reed and Master Reed, because Missis kindly allows you to be brought up with them. They will have a great deal of money, and you will have none: it is your place to be humble, and to try to make yourself agreeable to them.’"</p>
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<p>But if he’s at Yale, do you really think the other kids are doing fun things and he is not? I don’t. I think he has a cornucopia of fun and amazing things to do at Yale.</p>
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I think they can, in my experience, they do. I remember this kind of consideration from when I was in college–some things you just didn’t do, because not everybody could do it. But it’s got to grind on a really poor kid if he can never (or almost never) do anything that costs money. I also wonder whether this might be worse now, when there seems to me to be more casual expenditures (like coffee, for example) by many students.</p>
<p>My D attends H and we are middle class and yes she does receive financial aid. She has friends from every socioeconomic class. She does comment occasionally about the friend that is very rich and flies on a private jet to and from school to other friends that struggle to go out and eat a slice of pizza. She feels like going to H or an elite school is about the opportunities available to all students whether they are rich or poor.<br>
I find it interesting how people view their own financial success and that of others. I recently found an article and that talked about class and a short quiz to see how people survived based on middle class norms. The information was written by Dr Ruby Payne. In her book A Framework for Understanding Poverty she presents lists of survival skills needed by different economic classes. I found it fascinating.
[Social</a> Class Quiz](<a href=“http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~sheard/course/CyberMil/Doc/SocialClassQuiz.html]Social”>Social Class Quiz)</p>
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Sure he does–but there will still be things that many students will do that he won’t be able to do. He won’t be able to go out (at least not often) for coffee or pizza–or at least he won’t be able to have any. He won’t be able to go out to a restaurant for a birthday dinner. He won’t be able to see a play at the Rep. He won’t be able to go to Toad’s. He may not be able to join certain organizations that cost money. He won’t be able to go down to New York for a weekend. He won’t be able to go to the Harvard-Yale game when it’s at Harvard. He won’t be able to afford a smart phone, or a nice laptop. He can compensate for all of these things, but his choices and opportunities will be more limited than kids with money. It’s not the world’s greatest tragedy, because as you say, he’s at Yale. But you really don’t have a shred of sympathy for him?</p>
<p>Great post GFG!!! #431</p>
<p>I know it’s been said over and over, but the most insulting thing about this thread is the idea that someone who is broke at an elite school has no right to an opinion, because they are fortunate to be walking on such hallowed ground. Like the girl who was serving food in a white coat to her peers was just sooooo lucky.</p>
<p>When I was in college appropriate roommate gifts were porn or liquor. Reciprocity was not expected, but sharing was.</p>
<p>My fraternity at engineering school ran the gamut from Swiss boarding schools and Philips Exeter to inner-city and Carribean publics. Our commonality was “nice guy.” But there were fraternities where anyone showing up in a sport coat or wore the same suit more than once was automatically black-balled. I didn’t own a business suit at the time and didn’t realize I had no chance.</p>
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<p>Yes. Here’s one example who’s stuck with me since I first read about her four years ago: [She</a> finally has a home: Harvard - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/20/local/me-harvard20]She”>She finally has a home: Harvard)</p>
<p>Obviously she was neither homeless or hungry at Harvard.</p>
<p>She graduated from Harvard this past spring. From her FB page:</p>
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<p>One thing I don’t know, is whether there are any kids at these elite colleges who truly do not have two nickels to rub together, because it seems as though these kids are the ones being haggled over, and I wonder whether they really exist. If a full-FA is doing work-study, isn’t he earning some money?</p>
<p>Being the tight wad that I am, I gave my D’s very little spending money, and that is what prompted them to get jobs during the school year. Most of the entertainment money they spent was their own.</p>
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<p>No, it’s not. The study cited in the article defined “low-income” as those with HHI under about $4!K a year. The author of the article interviewed students who self-identified as “poor.” We don’t know what their HHI is.</p>
<p>And yes, there have been homeless students who have gone on to Harvard:</p>
<p>[From</a> scrubbing floors to Ivy League: Homeless student to go to dream college - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/us/from-janitor-to-harvard/index.html]From”>http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/us/from-janitor-to-harvard/index.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/from-homeless-to-harvard-liz-murrays-resilience-in-tough-and-troubled-times/[/url]”>http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/from-homeless-to-harvard-liz-murrays-resilience-in-tough-and-troubled-times/</a></p>
<p>Years ago there was a Lifetime Movie titled “Homeless to Harvard” about an American girl with a druggie mom and a dad with aids who studied hard because she really had no other life. It was a true story and really inspirational. I don’t know what happened to her but someone could probably look it up. Of course, she had exceptional challenges. But, the point is Harvard was her solution, not another problem. I doubt she knew which fork to use, either.</p>
<p>Sally, you are misunderstanding my posts. They are not homeless and hungry at Harvard. This is a life-changing opportunity.This is a good thing. A golden ticket. Of course, challenges remain but they just got a whole lot less burdensome.</p>