Article: The challenge of being poor at America's richest colleges

Parents Forum
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<p>I wonder how much of this has to do with individual colleges. I attended an expensive private college, but there wasn’t much to do outside of campus, so students without money didn’t miss out on much. I can see that things might be different at a college in Boston or New York, where students go out to eat or hit the bars with much more frequency.</p>

<p>In my experience, and I believe in the experience of my son, who’s attending the same school, college was a bit of a leveler. His friends don’t wear expensive clothes or drive flashy cars, and unless you’re invited to someone’s home or are particularly attuned to town names no one knows if you live in a $500/month apartment or a $5 million house. The problem of the cultural knowledge bank and the expensive vacation are still there, but no one’s going out to dinners requiring a coat and tie or the ability to discern the soup spoon from the dessert spoon, and “I’m gonna go home and hang with my high school friends” is a perfectly acceptable plan for winter break.</p>

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<p>“Clubs, study groups, hanging out at the lounge in the dorm after class”</p>

<p>Expanding on clubs, it is truly astounding how much money is spent by the elite schools on these clubs. D was in a club last year which participated in competitions, traveled to other locations, stayed in hotels etc. and the entire club budget was provided by the school. There are other clubs going to many other countries, some as far as Australia.</p>

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<p>Hasn’t everyone here had to eat alone in the dining hall? I did, and I know both of my Ds did sometimes when all of their regular dining buddies were off doing other things. It is awkward, but I don’t think it rises to the level of a “challenge” worth writing about. It is good practice for the future, as most of us have had to eat alone in restaurants on business trips, and these kids most likely will have to do that too. The way these elite colleges are set up, you dine with the same people for 3-4 years, so you’re going to know people there even when you go alone, unless you are an unsociable person.</p>

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<p>Don’t understand this thread.</p>

<p>I checked several top tier schools’ common data sets and found that half the kids were getting financial aid. Most of the rest are probably making a little more than what qualifies for financial aid (if your making $200K or $300K in New York City, Connecticut, Northern New Jersey or Philadelphia, your kids are not jetting off to St. Moritz for the weekend). </p>

<p>When I went to an Ivy League school, the one’s who were extemely wealthy were few and far between and if someone did not have a lot of money, it really didn’t matter to the group. We were doing plenty of things on campus that either cost nothing or almost nothing to do - sporting events, movies, etc.</p>

<p>I think thsi is one of those situations that isn’t really a big problem, but is being made out to be a big probelm.</p>

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<p>Sorry, ccdaddio, but “the gouge” gets shared in the most informal places. </p>

<p>My son got a prestigious DC internship through a fraternity connection, not a study group. My other son fell into a very high paying summer internship because he happened to be chatting with our neighbor one afternoon at the mailbox. He also found a phenomenal opportunity to work in a clinic in Africa because he was shadowing a variety of doctors at a hospital, (which he was able to do through his father who is a physician there), and met a physician (who is great friends with the director of a research program at the medical school connected to his university) who made a call. The job my son has now came about because he went out to dinner with a professor, who made a suggestion…</p>

<p>None of those opportunities would have happened in a study group or in the cafeteria.</p>

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<p>Let’s take a step backwards for a moment: I feel sorry for ANYONE who doesn’t have money for any extras. Obviously, I feel worse for people who don’t have a roof of their head or clothes on their back, but whether you are at Yale or not, it has to be absolutely demoralizing to never be able to go out for a meal, or see a movie, or buy an outfit that you didn’t choose just because it was the cheapest thing that fit you. Ultimately, I feel less sorry for the kid at Yale than the kid not at Yale, because he is getting a great opportunity that makes it pretty likely that he’ll move into a different socioeconomic class in the future, but in a given moment, the disparity between the life the poor kid lives and the life of his classmates means a starker sense of deprivation. That’s just human nature. </p>

<p>I do, however, also think there is a limit to how much we can ask people who do have more money to curtail their spending in deference to those with less. It is common courtesy not to be ostentatious about your money, and basic decency to try to take into account differing budgets. But I don’t think that the fact that some people can’t afford pizza or a movie means that it is never OK for others to go out. At another income level, if you can afford luxury vacations and fine dining, I don’t think you should be afraid to take advantage of that with similarly situated peers on occasion, as long as your social circle doesn’t revolve around big ticket expenditures to the point of widespread exclusion.</p>

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<p>@eastcoascrazy. </p>

<p>Sorry for what? Thank you for making my point.
How much money did your son have to have to be able to chat with a neighbor at a mailbox?
Or how much money did he need to have to have a connection with another individual? In his case, it was a fraternity connection, could have just as easily been a study group connection or a club connection, or any number of informal places as you point out.</p>

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<p>Whose **parents **have given them more money…</p>

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<p>That was never suggested.</p>

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<p>I would feel empathy for these kids if their basic needs were not being met. If they had substandard housing, poor food, and no access to enrichment activities, and then were expected to compete in class with those who had those things. But this is not what is happening to these kids. They have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to housing, food, and ECs; the same ones that are available to all students. That is why I agree with dadinator that this really isn’t a big problem (like if they can’t go to Toad’s) and is being made out to be a big problem.</p>

<p>I also feel bad (ha - empathy!) for these kids philosophically, because other people are feeling bad for them and it is wrong to assume that they want your pity or sorrowfulness or empathy or whatever you want to call it, when they might not feel they need it. Its insulting.</p>

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<p>I should add that I do think there is a little bit of straw-man thinking going on around here. As dadinator said, most people, even at HYP, aren’t living the life of the fabulously wealthy. Conversely, most financial aid kids, even ones on full or nearly full scholarships, at least have enough money to go out for dinner now and then or get an outfit for an interview. As I said in my last post, I feel sorry for few students for whom this is not the case.</p>

<p>There are almost certainly pockets in these schools - exclusive social clubs, for instance - in which lack of money really is a significant barrier to entry, but I don’t think it is the norm. The scenario the GFG is describing, for instance, sounds quite foreign to me - I never recall being in a gift exchange that didn’t have an upper limit of about 20 bucks, and I didn’t encounter a lot of situations where a whole social group was taking an expensive trip with the exception of the one poor man out. More typically, someone would say “Hey, wouldn’t it be great to go to X for spring break?” to a room, and two or three close friends would actually wind up going, the rest declining for various reasons, not all of which were financial. </p>

<p>On a day to day basis, I felt like social disparity was more often a matter of “we’ll both go to the same party, but I’ll be wearing a Burberry scarf on the walk over” than frequent exclusion of less well off students. Again, pockets of the super-wealthy and the few extremely poor students are exceptions to the rule.</p>

<p>Edited to add: OHMomof2, check out Marian’s post 430, where she suggested precisely that.</p>

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<p>ccdadio, you have to be kidding. Do you really think that the average kid in public housing, or a trailer park, etc have neighbors who are in the position to offer these kind of internships?</p>

<p>It doesn’t cost money to be friendly or polite. But, it does cost money and other even more subtle “costs of admission” to rub elbows with those who are in the position to help.</p>

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<p>He had to have whatever family resources enabled him to be living in a place where neighbors were well-connected and successful enough to offer him such opportunities. Someone growing up in public housing or a trailer park is unlikely to have the same.</p>

<p>ETA: haha…cross-posted with BossyMommy.</p>

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<p>That they already had, and got to these schools in spite of that!</p>

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<p>Exactly zero student profiled in the original or subsequent articles wanted any of that.</p>

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<p>Yes! Which proves my point!</p>

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<p>@bossymommy</p>

<p>You are missing the point.
I am not comparing a trailer park person with someone attending an Ivy League School.</p>

<p>I am talking about what this thread is about - a poorer person at an Ivy League. </p>

<p>People here seem to think the only way students can network is over expensive Toad meals. But there are hundreds of opportunities that don’t involve spending money.</p>

<p>And you are right, it doesn’t take money to be friendly and polite. To that I would add being very social and possibly politically minded. So I will bet that a poor person who attends an Ivy and is social, polite, interesting, friendly, politically minded will come out with a lot better education and connections than a rich person who doesn’t have those qualities - but can afford to go to Toads and skiing in Switzerland.</p>

<p>I think there even is a case where a poor person attended Columbia and Harvard Law and did pretty well for himself.</p>

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<p>I still have no idea where the idea came from that anyone is being asked to “feel sorry” for these kids. Talking about a situation that is relatively disadvantageous does not constitute complaining or asking for sympathy. For some reason, when I simply tell my DH that the washer broke, he hears it as complaining. This is probably because he feels financial pressure from the news and a little inadequate to meet all the needs of the family. From my point of view, complaining would sound more like “Now the washer broke! Everything is breaking around here. All my appliances are so darn old. Sally next door just got a brand new washer and drier set on Black Friday. I wish we could have done that too. Life just isn’t fair.” </p>

<p>At the same time, responses that suggest there is no problem (“I’m sure the washer isn’t really broken. You must have pressed the wrong button”), these kids are ungrateful whiners, or it’s no big deal because the kids are not homeless, is a little insensitive.</p>

<p>^ And I seem to remember the wife of said poor person having something to say about her undergraduate experience at Princeton that would fit nicely on this thread…</p>

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<p>Here’s a perspective:</p>

<p>I grew up in a famously wealthy area, but… my family was one of the original farm families. I benefitted greatly from from being around these people and from the education available at the top schools, but my father, a high school drop out thought that college was a collosal waste of time and money and energy and wouldn’t give me a dime to continue on. I went to school on an academic scholarship and also working. I graduated without debt.</p>

<p>I’ve lived my life without debt.</p>

<p>What that meant was that there were a lot of things I didn’t do. I didn’t join a sorrority, for example, though many of my friends were Greek and I would have been welcome in many houses. I didn’t shop for a lot of clothes, etc… I did have a car. Back then you could buy and pay for your own car and gas with little trouble, but I did not fly on an airplane until I was in my twenties.</p>

<p>I never felt badly about any of this, or “less than,” either. </p>

<p>I know that my own kids have means, not as much means as some, and more than most, but if I ever caught them rambling on about a trip or being tacky in that way, it would not have gone well for them. However, there is no question that knowing them has afforded some people they know new opportunities. Jobs/internships. If you are a freind of my kids, you will get a good hearing from us, since our kids have good taste in people.</p>

<p>I just wrapped up a conversation with a politician to get an internship for a girlfriend of my youngest. This girl is from a small farm. She would never get in that door, but she’ll get the internship as long as she can speak at all. My daughter will take her thrifting to get the clothes. (my kids thrift because they see it as an adventure, and this is easy to do with anyone of any means.)</p>

<p>In the end, I feel good for these kids on these campuses, though I do think that shows on campus and sporting events should be ‘free’ for financial aid students, and I think that ought to be taken up with the dean of students by us parents at every one of the universities our kids attend. One thing this thread has brought to my attention is this need and I will call both girls schools and our alma maters. </p>

<p>that is something we can all do.</p>

<p>ETA: and, of course, the fact that I will call about this shows my SES. LOL</p>

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<p>Thnk you BossyMommy and Sally. I feel like I’m talking into the wind.</p>

<p>Ccdaddio, yes, talk is free. But you have to get to the place where you have the opportunity to talk first. Unfortunately, a college student from a poor background would never meet my neighbor for a chat at our mailbox. So that internship would never go to him because he wouldn’t have the connections outside school to even know about it. The DC internship, again, was only offered through a fraternity connection. It is a fraternity that costs money to join and requires dues. A poor student that couldn’t afford to join that fraternity would never have known about it. The opportunity to work at a clinic in Africa came about through a series of connections, all of which would have been very difficult for a poor student to set up. He would have needed to figure out how to set up a shadowing experience at a military institution, and then find a way and the money to get to that institution every day. Not that an ivy student wouldn’t have the intelligence to look into a shadowing situation, but just finding the phone numbers (not listed in a local phone book) or knowing who to call, or having the identification materials necessary to be issued a temporary ID to get onto the installation… All of this was easy peasy for my son, but would be daunting for anyone without the connections, and nearly impossible for anyone without transportation. The job information that came through dinner out with a professor would be the most easily replicated because it could have happened for any student who had developed a personal relationship with a professor, but the reason for the dinner was not in any way related to a job search, the topic of a job opportunity came about after several hours of relaxed chit chat between several students and a professor who had gone out to dinner. Those opportunities were free, yes, but I don’t think they would be easily replicated.</p>

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<p>The GFG,</p>

<p>I think I started the “feeling sorry” angle, because I said I didn’t feel sorry for them because they are at these amazing schools with so much provided (to all students). Then a bunch of posters jumped all over me for not feeling sorry for them or empathetic to them.</p>

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<p>Great idea, poetgrl.</p>