I’ve done the math, and international fees at English universities come out to less than most private American universities, and out-of-state fees at the best American public universities (Cal Berkeley, Michigan, UVa, Chapel Hill, UT etc) and in addition to that, an undergraduate degree every part of the UK but Scotland is three years. Which means that I will be able to move on to postgraduate studies or into the working world a year earlier, while paying at least 25% less than my countrymen.
The financial realities, along with the fact that there aren’t any Gen-Ed requirements, the lack of “Greek Life” and football culture on campus and the opportunity to live in a foreign country and travel across Europe with little expenses, makes it seem as if there aren’t many downsides. However, my judgement is a bit clouded by enthusiasm, and thus I’ve come here for a reality check. To add, one can only apply to five British universities at a time, and you can’t apply to both Oxford and Cambridge, so I’ve chosen Cambridge, Durham, UCL, KCL and either Exeter or Warwick for a BA in Classics.
So, what are the downsides of going to a university in the UK as opposed to the US?
What type of grad school/career are you planning? If medical school the med school prereqs taken will not be accepted at US medical schools. If you are planning on working in the US you will be at a disadvantage in the recruitment process. Many students get homesick when they go off to college 50 miles away from home. Going overseas is a major lifestyle change.
The weather in the UK is a downer! Committing to a single field of study is extremely limiting, unless you are certain at you want to be a Classicist. The TSA is a much harder test than either the ACT or SAT, and you must reach a threshold score to even receive an invitation to interview. For admission to Cambridge, many AP scores of 5 are required. Of course, if you are passionate about studying Classics, you will have no trouble getting into any grad program in the US with a degree from any of those schools. But I agree with @TomSrOfBoston. It is challenging for any first year college student to adapt to the challenges of college life. These challenges will be amplified by an unfamiliar culture, social practices of your peers and the lack of a support network of family and friends. But the appeal of applying, and gaining acceptance, to a great UK university based solely on test scores and interviews, compared to the challenges of ‘holistic’ admissions practices in the US, is undeniable. Apply to US universities as well to keep your options open. You may feel very differently about your preferences and objectives as the year unfolds. Best of luck!
@worriestoomuch — the weather in Britain is far from ideal, but not much different from where I live now. And you’re right, the admissions process is much more logical and more suited to my strengths, as my grades are good, and I’ll be graduating with an IB diploma, bye I don’t really have many extracurricular activities.
As for my classics major, I’m pretty sure that’s what I want. Now, I don’t know if I want to be a classicist (in the sense of getting a PhD in the Classics) but it’s one of the most versatile of the pure humanities degrees. I can go for a postgraduate qualification in history, philosophy, literature, linguistics etc. I can go to law school, or I can enter into the working world. My other interests, are much less versatile and require a PhD, a JD or at least a teaching certificate to be worth much.
The main reason I asked this question was to see if I was missing something. For someone whose sure about what they want to study, wants to save money, wants to finish their BA in three years and may be disinterested in the frat/football culture of many American colleges, it seems like British universities are an obvious choice. However there are very few American students in British universities, and the majority of them are postgraduate students at Oxford, Cambridge or LSE, or MBA students at London Business School — I wanted to see if there was a reason why that I wasn’t realizing. It can’t be distance, because a student from the East Coast studying in Britain isn’t much farther away from home than he would be if he studied in California, the student visa process isn’t particularly arduous and the top universities in Britain have more name recognition than many American universities and colleges. What is it?
@TomSrOfBoston I’m not exactly sure, I might go for a PhD or MA in a related subject and then go into academia or consulting, I may go to law school, but I also want the option to go to work once I graduate. It seems that many employers regard degrees in the classics better than they regard other, more common humanities degrees like Philosophy, Literature or History. It’s very possible, and likely, that I’ll wind up back in the US, but I definitely wouldn’t mind living and working in another country, or returning to my country of origin (South Africa) to work.
If being able to find a job easily was my 1st concern (it’s a concern for everyone, of course) then I would go for an engineering degree, or a nursing degree or a computer science degree. However, none of those subjects interest me, I would struggle through university and be unhappy in my working life.
Are you looking at the cost of US universities after any merit money you might qualify for? I don’t know many students paying sticker price at US schools. The cost of traveling to Europe adds a nice sum onto your total - do you plan on coming home? As a parent of a freshman, my biggest worry is what if you don’t like it? My son’s best friend is in Boston and is miserable. A weekend home every couple of months does wonders to bring up spirits. It’s a big leap - the college transition coupled with being so far from home and a completely different culture.
My daughter dreams of studying in England or Ireland as well. We’re looking for schools that offer study abroad options (Gettysburg offers a semester at Oxford).
You mention the cost difference so I assume that you would be full pay at a US university.
If you are looking for a cheaper university experience that does not have the football/Greek life emphasis you may want to look at Canadian universities.
Several of us have cited reasons why few Americans do their undergraduate work in the UK and you have dismissed them out of hand.
You’ve obviously done your homework, and have good sense of the headline pieces. I won’t argue against the idea at all (except to make the home team case for dark blue > light blue!), but will point out some things that may be useful to be aware of as an US undergrad in England (v UK):
Overall, there is an expectation that you sort things out for yourself. There is much less hand holding - for everything- than in the US, and it starts on the very first day. When my collegekid started there were 16 first year students in her 'staircase' (dorm). That's it. No older students, no RAs, etc. *in situ*. They all looked at each other and got busy helping each other figure out how to do college. It is worth noting that those bonds are strong, and are the basis for lasting friendships. There are resources- but it is up to you to find them.
The relationship between students and teachers is (on average) more formal than it is (on average) in the US (obvs, that's not necessarily good or bad in itself).
There is much less (and sometimes no) weight on 'continuing assessment', and end of year exams are typically comprehensive. That puts more importance on being able to work independently, and makes finals stress in the US look like a cake walk (ie, 100% of your mark based on your final vs 15-20% of their mark!).
For Cambridge, the workload is exponentially higher than pretty much any place except That Place Up The River. It is hard to convey just how intense the work load is, but for a start, you are likely to write the equivalent of a term paper at least once a week, from a standing start (as in, 'here is a topic, here is a many-page list of work/writers you should be familiar with , go'; you turn it in 5-6 days later and discuss the material in detail with a tutor/don the next day. It varies by subject, but I know students who have written a dozen or more of those in a 9 week term. It is why liking your subject is so important! (and, if it suits you it is as exhilarating as it is exhausting).
You will almost certainly hear some very negative things about the US, and there are likely to be some people who act as if somehow you could actually change things if you wanted to. This is a needle you will have to thread continuously.
Drinking. No matter what your views on drinking are, understand that English university students drink a *lot*. No, not every single one. But it is rare to find one whose experience of drinking is less than that of all but the heaviest HS drinkers. You might not drink, and you might not plan to drink, but if/'when you do, be aware that you are hopelessly outclassed and trying to keep up will end badly for you. Ease in gently. Seriously. And, when you do have to help put a friend to bed, be kind and put a trash can and some water beside the bed.
@Archytas - My friends who had Rhodes scholarships, received Ph.Ds from Oxford, and returned to the US for additional professional graduate work, all counseled my son not to do his undergrad work in the UK, although he applied to Oxford anyway, for some of the same reasons you cite. But unless you attend certain flagship state universities or a handful of private university athletic powerhouses, the emphasis on “football” culture at US schools will be slight unless you choose to participate in that community. There are also many great colleges and universities in the US where GPA and standardized test scores matter a lot, and ECs are downplayed, in the admissions process. These schools - private and public - tend to be very generous with merit aid, so that counterbalances your claim that UK schools will be less expensive for you to attend. Work visas for American students are becoming very challenging to obtain if you need to earn income while an under-grad, or are considering the possibility of remaining to work after graduation. Finally, US law schools, MBA and PhD programs will care about what else you accomplished/cared about during your undergraduate years, and you won’t have the opportunity to get an internship or become a tutor’s research assistant or teaching assistant as you would as a top student in an American university. Best of luck!
Dorms tend to be quite stark, & dorm food really bland, repetitive, & unhealthy.
A lot depends on exams done at end of the degree.
Confusing course & degree requirements, compared to U.S. where every detail of a course is explained in a syllabus and degree requirements are spelled out in catalogs, brochures, departmental web pages, etc.
You will be blamed for the US's policies on capital punishment, health insurance, international intervention, and gun control.
There is much, much less choice on the modules/classes that you take in the UK than in the US. For example, at Durham in first year you would have one elective; at Cambridge you would have none. It is really important to read the year-by-year online summaries of what you do for each course that you apply to. Degree requirements are available online, but as moooop indicates are not models of clarity!
Food varies hugely (even within a university- if you go to the UK site the student room (.co.uk) and search for Cambridge (or Oxford if you are re-thinking that choice…) / Durham colleges pros and cons, you will see how different the food can be!). ‘Living out’ is common at most universities (biggest exceptions being London, where accommodation costs are critical, and the collegiate universities). Most universities offer a range of accommodation, including ‘self-catering’ (ie you cook for yourself) and (especially after first year) it is more common not to eat in hall (again, except for the collegiate unis).
You won’t have a roommate- if you share, it will be a set (everybody has their own tiny bedroom, and share a communal living space and kitchen/kitchenette).
Depending on what college at Cambridge (or Oxford), there are different practices for what happens to your room outside of term time. UK students are expected to move out of rooms when they ‘go down’ at the end of term, and back in when they ‘come up’ at the beginning of the next term. Most colleges have some sort of arrangement for international students, but it always involves an extra fee, and often involves moving into a temporary room during the vacation. They use the word literally: vacation is when you ‘vacate’ your room, which they then rent out for conferences, etc. Policies differ by college.
@Archytas My son made the choice to go to Oxford for his undergraduate studies for many of the same reasons that you list. @collegemom3717 has hit on a number of very important considerations to think about.
His experience so far has been great. Texted me this morning to say that he had really enjoyed his first lectures in Analysis & Functional Programming (he’s reading Maths & Comp Sci). His accommodations leave a little to be desired - he’s in staircase 1 at Worcester which is a 15th century building. He’s in a garret at the top of a steep wooden staircase and needs to stoop to get through his door. His staircase is above the senior common room (the faculty area), so there is only one other person across the landing from him. The shared bath leaves a bit to be desired, so he’s found a shower in the basement of another staircase that he can use. He is expected to pack up his room at the end of each term, but we have more flexibility there given that his Aunt & Uncle live relatively close by.
FWIW, he really liked the “clarity” of the Oxford admissions process and was comfortable that his admission would rest mainly on his MAT and interview performance. He did not fare well with the holistic US process getting deferred/rejected at MIT, rejected at CalTech, Princeton & Yale, and a courtesy legacy WL at Brown.
I studied abroad for a year in the UK in college with classics as one of my majors, and I spent most of last year at Oxford and Cambridge, so at this point I’ve had a fair amount of experience at multiple American and British universities. The difference between the systems is not great enough that you won’t be able to adjust between them pretty easily. Greek and Latin instruction is much the same anywhere. The methods of assessment are a bit different, as others have noted, but that is not a huge issue.
You’ve chosen a fantastic set of schools for classics, and you’d have zero problems getting into PhD programs if you do well at any of them. I would lean toward Exeter over Warwick and Oxford over Cambridge for classics, but YMMV.
My daughter graduated from a US college prep HS in 2016. She thougth for sure she would love studying in the UK) (having attended Latin camp in UK for three summers) and ultimately applied to St. Andrews, UCL, KCL, and Oxford. She was accepted everywhere but Oxford (rejected after interview). She decided to attend UCL and hated it. She and the only other incoming US student she knew prior to starting UCL each transfered to a (pretty high prestige) US university for sophmore year. Oh well, I loved visting her in London.
The general warnings cited here are directionally correct. It is difficult to say whether the specific issues experienced by my daughter (to the extent she is able to even articulate them) were her own issues, UCL specific, or a function of UK schools generally. My wife and I (both University of California grads) joke that UCL could easily have stood for Univeristy of California, London. For those who are familiar with the meat-grinder that is UC Berkeley, that is saying something. On the bright side, her tutor was very helpful with the transfer process and for that I am grateful. On the expense side, accomodations in London are very, very expensive. I paid $2000/month for a half of a tiny (500 sf) apartment next to TavistockSquare.
I will also warn you that American Latin honors kids (my daughter scored a 5 on her Latin AP exam and high 700’s on the Latin SAT subject test) will generally be far behind the best public school Latinists who have been studying Latin since age 6 and focused on Classics for two years preceding university during sixth form. Although she enjoyed not being at the top of a class, it was eye-opener for my daughter.
As for the specific schools, it is after October 15 so presumably you have already submitted your Cambridge application. Try to find someone to help prepare for the interview.
Of the other schols you mentioned, I have heard kids speak highly of Durham (both culturally and academically).
I have heard that US students love St. Andrews because it combines some of the advantages of UK uni that you have cited with a real effort to create more of an American college feel. The Classics course at St. Andrews is 4 years - but you will gradute with an MA.
“I wanted to see if there was a reason why that I wasn’t realizing. It can’t be distance, because a student from the East Coast studying in Britain isn’t much farther away from home than he would be if he studied in California, the student visa process isn’t particularly arduous and the top universities in Britain have more name recognition than many American universities and colleges. What is it?”
I think that part of the issue is that people in the US don’t seem to think of it much. The US has a huge number of very good universities and many highly ranked ones, and so I think that high school students rarely think of attending schools outside the US, in spite of the rather daunting sticker price for US schools.
“If you are looking for a cheaper university experience that does not have the football/Greek life emphasis you may want to look at Canadian universities.”
This did apply to us. Another advantage of Canadian or UK universities is that admission is relatively predictable and based on grades and to some extent SAT and references. These are all things that my kids and particularly my youngest had in spades (as compared to ECs and “hooks”). For us admission to schools outside of the US was a non-event – essentially pick a school, go there. My daughters do have friends who are in university in California which for us is a lot further away than eastern Canada, and quite similar in distance compared to the UK. Flights to the UK are probably a bit more expensive possibly due to their being less competition.
However, when my daughter was telling kids at school where she was applying, she got a lot of “where” and “why” sort of comments. I told her that as soon as we crossed the border comments would change to “great school”. We flew up to Canada, went up to the immigration official in the airport who asked “why are you here”. She pointed to her t-shirt and said essentially “starting university”, and his immediate response was exactly “great school”.
Many years ago I had a friend who had done a year abroad in the UK. She loved it. It was clearly her favourite year in university.
As such I think that doing university in the UK is a very reasonable thing to consider. Canada has the advantage that it is closer in distance and also the university system is more similar to the US. However, both countries (and Australia also) have great universities and speak a language which at least closely resembles English. In the UK you will save a year and get to focus more on courses closer to what you want to major in.
While I think it is helpful to help the OP ID negatives that they may not have thought of about going outside the US, I am cautious, @citymama9 about negatives for any given uni- for the same reasons as in the US: different people see things differently, and even when they see it the same way the relative weight may be different. “Bad food”, for example, is very subjective- and (esp in the UK) there are a lot of different housing options, with different food implications.
St Andrews is very US-friendly, but as with every single uni in the world, it has its + and -. Stark dorms is a question of taste- and for most students at StAs it only matters for first year, as almost everybody lives out after that. For all UK unis, I suggest reading the course descriptions thoroughly, choosing the ones that seem like the best fit (b/c even at StAs the range of options is narrower than in the US), and then visit the most relevant options. Remember also, that many of these elements are not what ends up deciding a college/uni.