<p>CTMom:
Here we go ago, like mhmm mentioned, $110,000 is not that much money in some parts of the country. Please don’t make assumptions of what people do with their money.</p>
<p>I too think that residents should pay less, be it in-state vs out-of-state or domestic vs international. The reason is that it’s the residents that over generations made the college attractive to others, not merely current state funding. Big bank account of a top private school is the result of a generous policy - tax exempt charitable donation.</p>
<p>Tuition for out of state students at West Texas A&M University (one of the A&M System campuses) is one of the lowest in the nation, $7,330 a year. Compare that to someplace like Colorado State University that’s at $12,220 year for out of state students.</p>
<p>Even when you add in room and board, books, etc. it’s at just over $13,000 a year at West Texas…compared with just over $20,000 at CSU. </p>
<p>It’s one of the best values around for out of state students.</p>
<p>To show that it can be done, my niece is a OOS freshman at BYU-Idaho. Probably no more than $12K out the door for everything per year. Certainly, the costs are partially subsidized by the Church (of which she is not a member), but that is dirt-cheap for a good education in a very safe & clean-living environment. And she’s enjoying it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not so sure the net price will be the same for all students. If they reduce tuition and reduce need-based FA a like amount, the effect would be to lower the net price for full-pays and possibly to increase the net price for those with financial need (or some of them, at an rate). So it would have a regressive distributional effect. But maybe that’s what they wanted: it makes the school more attractive to full-pays and less attractive to those with financial need, which might over time shift the composition of their student body a bit. It might be a strategy for the school to cope with rising demand for FA.</p>
<p>“Those kids from families making $110k need to make some choices. If their parents don’t have the money to help them, it’s because they’re already spent it”</p>
<p>-Disagree. Even families with only one student and making more than that (for example, $150k) and no debt can pay only if they can withdraw from previously saved money. If they do not have this ability, no way they can pay for example, close to $50k / tuition and close to $15k+ R&B. Even with very min. of cash flow every month. So, the correct way is to choose cheaper / full ride / tuition free options or take loans. The expansive privates might not be as expansive for some as they appear on a surface. It all depends on financial package they can offer and some privates are treating their top applicants very nicely. Some publics also do. Just do research!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, when the state is only contributing 7% of the university’s budget, as at UVA, or 6%, as at Michigan, in-staters are most definitely not subsidizing out-of-staters. What’s happening is that the university is subsidizing both in-state and out-of-state students out of endowment payouts, money recaptured from externally generated research grants, intellectual property licensing fees, and other revenue streams. It’s just that the subsidy to in-state residents is much larger than the subsidy to out-of-state students. A portion of that much larger in-state subsidy is recouped from legislative appropriations, but only a portion. If I recall correctly, for every dollar Virginia taxpayers invest in the University of Virginia, they get roughly two dollars in tuition discounts for Virginia residents attending the university. The money is all commingled, of course, but bottom line, Virginia residents are getting a fabulous deal and have no cause for complaint about “subsidizing” out-of-state students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be more like OOC (out-of-church) instead of OOS (out-of-state) in this case? BYU is quite inexpensive, even for non-LDS members, though presumably only those who live like observant LDS members would be comfortable in the environment.</p>
<p>From what I understand, at BYU-Idaho (and I assume Provo, UT as well) there are some rules as to behavior and also a one-strike-you’re-out policy for alcohol & drugs. Given what takes place on many college campuses, what’s wrong with that?</p>
<p>Certainly not for everybody, but folks there seem to buy into the program & enjoy it.</p>
<p>someone had asked a few pages ago why tuition in general is this high. I didn’t see this addressed. The reason, as far as I can see, is the availability of easy money through federal grants and loans with very low interest rates. large box colleges started assembling expensive sports teams and building highly extravagant sports stadiums - they need money to support these activities. In one college, I heard the foot ball coach makes more money than the president. Recently there was a debate in congress about keeping the interest rates on student loans at current (artificial) 3% as opposed to letting it go back to 6% or so. Imagine a hypothetical world where there is no government loans/grants of any kind for students and they have to either come up with money from parents savings or borrow from private banks at market rates with collateral - do you think the tuition would be this high in this situation? In in ideal situation, we would have slight quota for the underprivileged minorities and everyone else compete on equal footing.</p>
<p>easy money is ruining everything here. Look what it did to housing. Frankly I don’t like any government initiatives that encourages people to borrow - e.g. mortgage interest deduction, FED suppressing interest rates so businesses/people can borrow to the hilt. if two families with same income and number of kids, with one of then leading a frugal life and saving like crazy for future and the other spending on vacations, villas and boats - when each of them apply for colleges guess who is going to get partial financial aid based on net worth?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe neither. The vast majority of colleges do not meet need, so it’s more likely that both families will get just an offer of loans. Which leaves the family that saved in the catbird seat.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>You hear this argument so many times on CC, but it’s not accurate. The majority of financial aid is determined by your income. You’re better off saving than just spending it all, thinking you will get a much better package. </p>
<p>You won’t.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, you hear this many times on CC, but I’m not so sure how accurate it is. It sounds logical, but sometimes it’s very difficult to establish causation.</p>
<p>Here’s one possible test. If it’s easy government money that has caused tuition to skyrocket at colleges, then let’s look at tuition at private boarding high schools to see if the tuition here has also risen faster than inflation. Although you can get loans for private school tuition, they aren’t subsidized by the government.</p>
<p>The trouble is that the mission of the high school is significantly different from the mission of the college/university–private high schools don’t need to attract research scholars, for example, so it might be comparing apples to oranges. But there might be some clues here.</p>
<p>I know that at the very elite private high school about a mile away from my house, tuition is around 18K. It’s probably the best high school in the city. It’s not a boarding school, though.</p>
<p>skrlvr, I’ve also wondered about how one really shows that federal grants and low interest loans lead to higher college costs. Maximum Pell Grant is $5500 a year. Maximum subsidized low-interest Stafford loans range from IIRC $3500-$5500 a year. Let’s toss on another $5k a year from work-study and summer work, giving our low income student a grand total of $16k a year. That stretches a long way for students commuting from home to their local community college or in-state public, but it doesn’t come anywhere near the $55k+ cost of the most expensive privates. </p>
<p>The big problem with student debt is when students take out large private loans. Those dollars are overwhelmingly used at private for-profit schools.</p>
<p>Dunno if using tuition at private high schools is a fair test for looking for a link between cheap money and rising tuition, because until very recently loans haven’t been a big component of financing K-12 education. Unless you stretch the definition and consider people taking out bigger mortgages so they can afford to live in more desireable school districts.</p>
<p>“You hear this argument so many times on CC, but it’s not accurate. The majority of financial aid is determined by your income. You’re better off saving than just spending it all, thinking you will get a much better package.”</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree – my parents saved huge amounts of money when they were both working ridiculously long hours. They don’t have expensive cars or the biggest house in the neighborhood; we take very modest vacations and visit/stay with family. Now my dad works for the government and my mom works part time, and I’ve run the NPCs at several schools I was looking at – I qualify for a lot of “need” aid based on their income, but once I input their savings, ALL of it vanishes. Other kids at my school who own their own cars and have been everywhere and live in big houses, but whose parents didn’t put money in savings, will get “need-based” aid and I won’t. That doesn’t seem fair. Maybe they won’t get full rides, but why should they get a cushy lifestyle now as well as a lower net price?</p>
<p>Artemis, your parents must have a great deal saved up since parental savings are only assessed at 5.6%. And you are making a gross assumption that other kids at your school will get FA.</p>
<p>Like some of the other posters, I don’t see how $11K/year of grants and student loans makes college costs go through the roof. It is the parent’s choice as to whether to take out additional loans.</p>
<p>I only know that when I used the net price calculator at some of the schools I am applying to, it went from getting about 20k/year in need based aid with their savings not put in (and I don’t think it’s that much – even if they spent every penny on me, it doesn’t equal four full years of college) to no need based aid whatsoever when I do enter it. I don’t pretend to understand how it works – every source I’ve tried has a different understanding of it. I don’t think it is a gross assumption on my part to say that some of the other kids at my school will get need based aid. Recent graduates certainly have and our school counselor is definitely promoting that assumption among many of them.</p>
<p>And if we believe the College Board, the average net price–the price after grants and scholarships, for private colleges is $12,970, while the average net price for publics is $2490. These numbers do not include room and board, however.</p>
<p>The system is not fair, nor is it consistent. One can become a lobbyst to try to bring about some changes, but who will pay you to do so? Most of the time, it’s all we parents can do just to come up with the best options for our student and family situation.</p>
<p>There is also the fact that many parents and students need to get a change in mindset about how this college thing works. Few expect to send their kids to private school or out of district schools without paying tuition. That’s a given here. Your kids go to your public school or other programs to which your public school has made arrangements with, or you pay out of district costs. And if you live in an apartment and don’t pay school taxes directly, it doesn’t matter. It’s part of your rent. Live for free with other family members, you’re still in district. The rules are generally clear. You want to go to Private Academy or Holy Catholic, you have to apply and either pay the tuition or see if you qualify for aid or scholarships, if they exist. You put your kid in boarding school, in addition to tution, you pay room and board. All of these things are very clear. </p>
<p>Then it’s time for college, and many parents with kids who are good students suddenly think that not only should the kid be going to a private school but should be living there. And they are outraged at the cost. Take a look at what these “independent” schools are charging the selective ones, for K-12 kids. So, yes, going a way to college going to a private college is expensive. And these days, even the state school costs have been rising. But still, the Stafford loan available to nearly everyone can cover most in state local school tuition. Those who are considered very needy, have the PELL.</p>
<p>Then if a school really wants you, it can offer to defray the cost with merit awards. Some schools have financial aid and have their formulas on how they dole it out. </p>
<p>You want to go out of state where you don’t vote, are included in the tax base if and when you qualify for taxes, then you pay a premium. </p>
<p>How fair this system is, I don’t know, but a first step is understanding it. A lot of parents don’t and that’s where a lot of the problmes occur. There is this myth that if you have a “good” student, the scholarships are right there. That there is some entitlement to going away to school and to public schools. Yes, HPY and those other big names are regarded by many as the “Best” colleges and be so regarded they should be taking the “best” students regardless of money, but then there are those prep schools that are also so regarded, and no one expects their top high schooler to be able to go there for free. The expectations shift when it comes to college due to alot of myths that are around, fed by the college articles and the propaganda the colleges themselves issue. The school GCs don’t help either.</p>
<p>Colleges, are a business, also. SOmething that a lot of people do not consider. They are not a charity or an entitlement.</p>
<p>Artemis, did you also run your the numbers through the FAFSA EFC estimators? Do that and see what you get. </p>
<p>The NPCs are new, and I don’t find them that reliable. I ran a few and they are results I would get if I played the averages on the common data on financial aid and merit awards along with the school stats, not so much an individual analysis. They are there to give you an idea of what you might get.</p>