As colleges struggle to support non-revenue sports, U.S. Olympic future is threatened

<p>Google result from a quick search with a concise explanation:
[College</a> Sports Scholarships for Swimming and Diving ~ GoCollege.com](<a href=“http://www.gocollege.com/financial-aid/scholarships/athletic/swimming.html]College”>College Sports Scholarships for Swimming and Diving ~ GoCollege.com)</p>

<p>Excerpt:
"How Many Swimming Scholarships Are Available?
The NCAA Women’s Div I Swimming and Diving programs may offer a total of 14 full scholarships per school, and the Men’s Swimming and Diving programs, 9.9. Considering the number of schools with women’s swim teams, close to 200 awards are offered every year, and the number with men’s swim teams is around 140. The total number of swimming and diving scholarships available to Div I swimmers and divers is over 4,000.</p>

<p>Depending upon the institution, full-scholarships may be divvied up and offered as partial scholarships in order to assist that many more swimmers.</p>

<p>Division II schools offer Swimming and Diving scholarships as well. Many of these are partial and sometimes mixed with other forms of scholarship and grant money to help students meet financial needs. However it is important to know that the competition at Div II schools is also often fierce. In many cases elite athletes opt out of attending Div I schools regardless of their scholarship qualifications. So you can find a wealth of talent on teams at this level of competition and therefore the financial aid may be doled out quickly."</p>

<h1>100ecc, perhaps it is a school specific and sport specific decision. I was referring to soccer at Stanford. It was told to me as being a general rule in regards to all Div. 1 sports.</h1>

<p>“If she is a great football player, then she deserves to be on the team. But, by cutting certain male sports to “even out” the opportunities and/or scholarships is (in my opinion) reverse discrimination.”</p>

<p>There are wrestling weight classes (and rowing, too?). There’s no reason why they couldn’t have them in football as well, say a team with a maximum weight of 135 or so.</p>

<p>The Ivies, beginning with H, have found ways around the no-merit scholarship thing for athletes. H maximized the amount to be paid by those under around $175k (hence guaranteeing a $35k a-hem “needbased award”), and then finding athletes that fit the bill. Bet if you look at the H football and basketball teams, you’ll find 80% of the players on these “need-based” scholarships.</p>

<p>(Hey, if I were running a college, and had that kind of money, I’d do the same thing, if I couldn’t rent-a-player.)</p>

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<p>There actually is a league that has a weight cap of 172. It’s called sprint football. Currently there are only 8 schools playing it as a varsity sport. Some of the schools have a regular NCAA team and a couple do not.</p>

<p>It would be nice if we could come up with a metric that puts men and women on equal footing so that all sports could be co-ed and let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately, the average woman in America is 5 inches shorter than the average man, 30 pounds lighter, has less muscle mass and different hormonal levels.</p>

<p>“There actually is a league that has a weight cap of 172.”</p>

<p>Oh, there used to be a lot more. (I remember when Columbia had a team.) But 135 seems about right.</p>

<p>Why do we only want to watch teams with lots of fat people?</p>

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<p>For a women’s league, that may be fine. But I wonder if there’s really an interest for something like that on a wider-spread basis…</p>

<p>No, doesn’t have to be a women’s league. Let every one compete. If it works for 250 lb. football (which folks think women should have the “opportunity” to join), should work for 135 lb.ers. Get some great coaches. Million dollar facilities. Special tutors. Full-pay scholarships. In 20 years, there will be a GREAT league.</p>

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<p>I agree that is a good thing, if it is true. Based on some quick googling, I don’t think the participation rates are even. There is still a fairly big gap.</p>

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<p>This is a good point.</p>

<p>That said, at some point, there has to be an audience. The Women’s Professional Soccer League here in the US has made at least 2 attempts at starting a league. I hope they are successful. But ultimately, they will only be successful if they have enough fans to generate revenue. I don’t know how the WNBA is doing. I don’t watch the NBA, so logically I don’t watch the WNBA either. </p>

<p>Football and Basketball are generally the only profitable sports. And, (this is important) they are only profitable at a minority of the schools. MOST D1 football programs lose money and/or are subsidized by student fees. But, just because a sport loses money does not mean it is not valuable to the school. I would guess that most History departments also lose money, but they are subsidized by the students in the form of tuition.</p>

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<p>Honestly how many college-age males are under 135 pounds? </p>

<p>And women already have the opportunity to join a football team; it just doesn’t count toward females numbers.</p>

<p>Well, honestly, how many healthy college women are over 250 lbs. (the size of a guard or tackle or defensive end?)</p>

<p>It can be done. Took this long and millions of dollars invested to get 250lb. football to where it is today. Audiences can be built. It takes time, but then it took the NCAA a hundred years - I’m betting it could be done in 20. Could be very valuable for the schools.</p>

<p>“It would be nice if we could come up with a metric that puts men and women on equal footing so that all sports could be co-ed and let the chips fall where they may.”</p>

<p>What about the potential for sexual harassment with co-ed teams? I know of one incident.</p>

<p>“Unless an Ivy, I don’t think the other Div I schools can’t just field a sport at the NCAA level and not award the scholarships.”</p>

<p>Sure they can. The Patriot League schools, for example, do not offer scholarships for most of the sports they offer. At Lafayette, for example, full and partial athletic scholarships have been offered for men’s and women’s basketball, women’s field hockey and men’s soccer only. The other DI team rosters have been filled with non-athletic scholarship players. The Patriot League recently voted to allow up to 65 FTE athletic scholarships for football at the schools that offer that sport (aside from associate-member Fordham which had already begun offering football scholarships a couple years ago).</p>

<p>just and aside . . . 135lbs is actually the cutoff of women’s lightweight rowing so not exactly a wt cap that would include many athletic women</p>

<p>Well, in Division I football, there is essentially a 235lb cutoff (lower end) for offensive tackles and defensive ends - I doubt that includes many athletic men.</p>

<p>Well, football seems to be dominating this discussion as much as it dominates college sports budgets.</p>

<p>One hope for college wrestling is the increased participation by women. Over the past 4 years of watching high school wrestlin I have seen a big increase in the number of girls participating. I had no exposure to the sport before my son took it up. It is sports at the most basic level. Great conditioning, many levels of strategy. One on one on the mat results in a higher level of mutual respect and spotsmenship (you aren’t hidden by a helmet or merely one participant in a larger group).</p>

<p>I have no idea of the level of women’ wrestling at colleges. I’d much rather see that develop rather than more football.</p>

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<p>Wow. You do realize there are 2 offensive tackles and 2 defensive ends on the field at a time, right? That’s a max of 4 out of 22 or 18%?</p>

<p>Times how many colleges and universities? And you do realize that every one of them has at least one backup? (statistically, with 85 scholarships - 2?). So that’s 3 at each position, 12 per school times 115 schools is how many full scholarships for extra large men? (and I haven’t started on centers, defensive tackles, or offensive guards). So let’s see - 9 positions, three per school x 115 schools is how many full scholarships each and every year for all those overweight athletic men?</p>

<p>I’m sure that we could find plenty of sub-135lb women (or men) prepared to take 'em. Now do that for 20 years, at all 22 positions, with great coaching, tutoring assistance, the whole nine yards, and you’d have some fantastic sport!</p>

<p>I strongly agree, rhumbob: girl’s wrestling is really growing in our state at the HS level. It seems to be growing most quickly at schools that have strong boy’s wrestling traditions - interest and the available of good coaching I guess. Of the young women who participated recently at my D’s HS only one that I know of was a dedicated wrestler, though. She came from a “wrestling family”. The others had another primary sport or two and were looking for a winter sport other than gymnastics or basketball. It would take time to grow to a level where there was a critical number for competitive programs.</p>

<p>I have no idea how that would factor into the scholarship issues at the D1 level, but in HS coaches and ADs in our state seem to be realy on board with it and it helps a school’s numbers to have some young women participating in a traditionally male sport. The school doesn’t have the expense of offering another dedicated sport and more girls are participating. It seems like a win/win.</p>

<p>Mini, why create a new thing…Rugby rules! The athletes you describe can already take out their football jones on a rugby field.</p>