<p>ephenst: As long as you’re taking both during the same semester you’re fine. The lectures and labs are not “synchronized” tightly enough for this to matter.</p>
<p>OK thanks.</p>
<p>bump …</p>
<p>Psubmb,</p>
<p>Your thread seemed quite lonely in recent days, so I decided to actually hop on and contribute. Ive followed it for some time from afar and thank you for your help already in assisting me unravel college conundrums. To jump right in:</p>
<p>Ive been accepted and Ive completed pre-registration as a Penn State Undergrad (2015), University Park, and will be attending my FTCAP meeting tomorrow, so many of my questions today will be more clarified then. Nevertheless, I wanted to present you with my current position in the hope to gain some of your perspective. </p>
<p>**>> Insidious Indecision **</p>
<p>Choosing an Area of Study:</p>
<p>In my attempt to make a definitive decision on what to study in the next 4 years, Ive gone through the following process painful process: </p>
<p>I love the Arts. I love the witty banter within creative writing, the deep late-night discussions of philosophy, and the soothing Good Vibrations of music. But then I also am fond of Science and Math. I appreciate the natural beauty and capacity for practical application that are revealed through experimentation and number crunching. The first track of thought, however, leads to a lifetime of struggle and a likely outcome of shmuckiteering as I live off of others through govt handouts. The latter promises a wealth of opportunities for advancement in careers, but also in technological avenues for the next stage of human evolution. And then America + the world need far more engineers and scientists to address the futures many issues (And then maybe we can chink away at that now 14.8 trillion or so in debt <em>cough cough cough</em>).</p>
<p>Arts >>> No Job >>> Possible Minor*
Science/Math >>> Career >>> Major*</p>
<p>Convinced about obtaining a BS, I moved onto my two main interests, Biology & Physics/Chem. Reading through the University Bulletin and going cross-eyed in the process, I ended up with about 6 majors bouncing about in my skull and Im now struggling to make the decision between them:</p>
<p>Bio-Focus: Microbiology, BMB ;p
Physics: EE, Comp Sci, Physics
Hybrid: BioEng</p>
<p>I suppose my questions to you are these: Are there any courses, on either side, (though I petition you for your expertise in Bio & BMB) that defined the experience of the major early on for you Something that adequately allows you the opportunity to love/hate the subject? For instance, Ive heard that Organic Chemistry is one of those courses. Can you come up with any?*</p>
<p>And then, which of the following is the most rigorous? Not that this affects which one Ill choose, but Id just like to know from an inside source.</p>
<p>Ah, and to throw another wrench, Im coming into college with 10 AP courses (7 5s & 3 4s) which equate to some 38 credits according to the schools website. Some of these courses (basic calc, chem., bio, phys) are prereqs in nearly every one of the above majors. Now granted, I believe some engineering majors require you to retake some courses in their specialized classes and I may not receive the full 38. However, in nearly every case, Ive got a good 1.5 semesters under my belt, which gives me even less time to pick a major. </p>
<p>*So with all that in mind, do you think I should just start signing up for a kind of menagerie of all 6? Say a comp sci intro, an organic chem., engineering intro, etc.?</p>
<p>**>> Swamped with Curiosity **</p>
<p>(in no particular order)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>** Above I mentioned a possible minor in the Arts. How do minors affect life later on? Do they hold any weight in the world at large? Are they worth it? Is it smarter to pick a minor with closer relations to your major, in say mathematics, than philosophy?</p></li>
<li><p>Have any interactions with Schreyers Honors College affected your time in college, beneficially, maliciously? What benefit does such an honor hold in the real world?</p></li>
<li><p>Ive read some on your advice on choosing Honors College, and youve been extraordinarily helpful. Now for the stupid question: What benefit of Honors Courses actually exists academically? How does it translate into professional life?</p></li>
<li><p>Youve mentioned professors such as Annie McGregor, Bojan, and Ola Sodiende. Who were your best professors? Who were the gamechangers of your Penn State career of sorts? Did you form any close relationships with them, and if so, how did such relationships carry on beyond college?</p></li>
<li><p>Roommates: What were the major life lessons learned concerning them? Any good stories :D? Or simple advice? </p></li>
<li><p>Did you develop a workout/nutrition routine at college? How difficult is it to stay healthy at UP?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>There are more… but I’m blanking. </p>
<hr>
<p>Just organizing thoughts here. Feel free to comment on anything of note especially when those wish I would have know bits of thought bubble up. They are invaluable. </p>
<p>Hope this gives you enough to chew on in the coming days. ;p Tomorrow I plan on picking a basic menagerie type of schedule, (unless counsel convinces me otherwise) but I await your responses with baited breath.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>- Tso</p>
<p>Reply to the first part of Tsotanga’s post (choosing an area of study):</p>
<p>First, a math or science major is not necessarily a guarantee of employment. Majors such as microbiology, BMB, and physics will not get you good jobs with a bachelor’s degree. Within the biological sciences and chemistry, there are plenty of people with masters’ degrees who are low paid pipette monkeys with uninteresting jobs. Don’t plan on doing a major such as this unless you also plan on going to graduate or professional school afterwards.</p>
<p>An engineering major is much, much better in terms of your chances of getting a high paying job with a bachelor’s degree. Electrical engineering is very employable - the average starting salary for EE majors is ~60k. Bioengineering is up there as well.</p>
<p>I don’t know that signing up for a “menagerie of intro courses” is such a good idea. Many intro courses are tough and designed to some degree to weed people out of difficult majors. Handling multiple weed out courses from multiple majors at the same time would be very difficult.</p>
<p>All these majors are tough and if you’re not truly interested in them will kill you (or you just won’t do very well).</p>
<p>The courses which are best for providing somewhat representative early exposure to what the BMB major is about are in my opinion BMB 251 and 252 (these are taken in sequence). Organic chemistry is not a good representation of BMB. It doesn’t necessarily even do a great job of providing a good representation of what upper-level chemistry courses are like because there are chem majors out there who love physical chemistry and hate organic chemistry. Chemistry is a diverse field. That being said, if you love organic chemistry and are also good at math, those might be signs that you’d make a good chemistry major.</p>
<p>I’m a bit biased towards the BMB major but I think you could easily gain exposure to many of the sciences you are interested in if you started out as a BMB major. For example, an intro microbiology course is a requirement for the major. You can take calc-based physics and count it for the major (you have to if you choose the biochemistry option). You have to take organic chemistry. And, you also get courses like BMB 251/252 which are good representations of the upper level courses in the major itself.</p>
<p>Sorry I haven’t really outlined a specific path for narrowing down six majors to one, but hopefully some of these thoughts and comments help. Feel free to ask follow up questions and try to get more detail out of me :-)</p>
<p>Reply to your second set of questions is in the works.</p>
<p>psubmb, </p>
<p>Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I do really appreciate it, and I apologize for my tardy reply.</p>
<p>I should clarify that I’m not aiming to land a ‘well paying’ job in any near capacity. I only aim to procure a scientific/engineering position that will enable survival with a basic requirement of paying student loans, life & medical, etc. I could happily and comfortably live in that mangy downtown appartment for the rest of my life ;p. That said, I do firmly believe that the world is looking for scientists and engineers in tomorrow’s workforce – at least in a greater capacity in comparison to Art Majors. I need to only to look at the Baby Boomer retirement numbers to glean the growing need of those in medical professions. That’s where I’m aiming, but whether I tinker with medical equipment or do spinal surgery is still up in the air.</p>
<p>Bias? Probably, but that’s my current state of mind.</p>
<p>I hadn’t thought about the multiple ‘weed-out’ courses myself… but I still plan on taking several of the starter courses in Physics, Micb/BMB, & Engineering. I honestly enjoy the subject matter within each of the prescribed majors – my difficulty lies in the decision between them. In fact, these weed-out courses may be EXACTLY what I’m looking for. But thank you for the perspective all the same.</p>
<p>Coming in as a 03 semester freshman with ‘last pickings’ of courses has been… Fun. In the end, I’ve decided to sign onto BMB 251, Calc 3, CMPSC 121, and the Physics Engineering Track for starters (with a smattering of philosophy + a few other nameless art classes. </p>
<p>I hope to be able to find a love or hate of something in the first two weeks so that I might be able to rearrange this for that in the drop-happy start of semester. Thank you psubmb for acting as a soundboard. I look forward to your further responses.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Tso</p>
<p>Hi Psubmb,</p>
<p>Our son is a HS senior and wants to major in biology for a pre-med track. We visited Penn State and he loved it. We would really appreciate your advice on the following:</p>
<p>1.) I’m worried that with penn state being so large, he will not be able to connect enough with professors to get his letters of recommendation or it wil be very hard to. How much extra work and effort was required for you to do so ? Any other disadvantages being pre-med at such a large school or advantages for that matter ?</p>
<p>2.) We were told the PSU medical school acceptance rate is 80%. Do you think that’s accurate ? Did most of your fellow students get accepted ? What was the average GPA and MCAT from Penn State for those accepted ?</p>
<p>3.) How are the Biology and Chemistry professors ? Do they grade hard and is it impossible to get an A ? Of course our son will work hard but some schools we visited came right out and said they can’t make their curriculum hard enough for their students because everyone is so smart. We want him to be challenged, but also able to get good grades (some info - he has a 95 HS GPA and did well in AP Biology).</p>
<p>4.) How was your off campus living experience. We’re also worried about on-campus housing only being guaranteed for one year. I would prefer he doesn’t live in apartments until junior year.</p>
<p>5.) Do you know anything about the Syracuse University program and can you recommend any other college that maybe your friends have gone to and been successful pre-med ?</p>
<p>Thanks !</p>