The young woman who was pressured into sexual contact with the pastor says she was “sexually assaulted.” Reading the description of the events given by her, I do not call that sexual assault. I think I wouldn’t. It’s creepy, it’s disgusting, and it’s clearly improper, but I would not call it assault. What about the rest of you?
The described behavior: She was 17. He was her 22-year-old youth minister. He offered her a ride home. Instead of giving her a ride home, he drove her to a remote location, whipped out his johnson, and asked her to suck it. She did. He then began to paw her breasts. After about five minutes of this manhandling, he jumped out of the car, got down on his knees, and began praying.
So, she never indicated this was what she wanted. She expected a ride home, not a request for unpaid prostitution. She could have said no. On the other hand… He offered her a ride home, but then instead whipped out the johnson and demanded oral sex from her. She would have a reasonable fear of what he would do if he said no, since he had already gone way beyond social norms in putting her in the situation in the first place. So maybe it is assault.
So… curious what others think our obligations are to past work by artists (actors, etc) accused of harrassment. I just watched Manchester by the Sea – thought it was a heartstopping, amazing performance by Casey Affleck. Didn’t know he’d been accused (honestly, he wasn’t really on my radar before watching the film). I can’t unsee that performance or my reaction to it – I was really thrilled by it.
Should I never pay (rent, theater, etc) again any film he or another accused actor is in (even past work)? Should I check to see if they get royalties (if I can figure it out) and only watch if they don’t? Artists I am meh in to start with are no problem. I guess not giving them eyes on their work at all seems most supportive of the women. But I’m curious what others think.
He was in a position of power and influence that he used to pressure her into sex. This is very similar to a high school teacher/student type situation. Perhaps closer to a therapist/patient type situation.
Fang Jr comes up with a thought experiment. I’m a young woman. A man (who happens to be a landlord) offers to drive me home. Instead, he drives me to a remote place, whips out a lease and asks me to sign it. Am I under duress? I think I am.
Definitely sexual abuse. Abuse of power. Violation of pastoral ethics. In my denomination he would be so gone and never allowed to make such a manipulative public statement. Perhaps after a time of demonstrated repentance, accountability, therapy, etc, he might be allowed to return to ministry. But not on his terms, on the denominational authorities terms.
To add – it is never ok for a pastor to have a sexualized relationship with a parishioner (apart from the one he/she is married to) and it is always the pastor’s responsibility to prevent such a relationship. That is made clear to my pastors from day one.
@intparent I think it depends on the person. I know many people who refuse to watch give actors/actresses because they find objection to various aspects of their respective personal lives (from politics to bad acts). Same is true of people in sports; they will actively root against/refuse to watch given stars/teams for off the field reasons. Other people I know do not care about the personal lives/off the field stuff. If they like the actor/actress/sports star while they are acting/playing sports, they will watch and ignore whatever happens off stage/off the field. A lot of people look at entertainment as a way of getting away from the drama of daily life and thus they don’t want unrelated drama getting in the way of their entertainment.
For some people I suspect it depends on how much they like the actor/actress/star and/or how significant a role they play. Also depends on the off stage/field actions at issue.
I think some people in the religious community love a repentant sinner more than any other kind of person. Too bad it’s often theater, and theater at the expense of their victims.
I didn’t see that Casey Affleck movie and I was hoping he wouldn’t win awards for it but there it is. I won’t see anything anymore from Woody Allen. I can’t root for the Steelers or Tampa Bay. It’s not a long list, but I’m happier staying away from people who really repulse me, even if they’re only on the other side of a movie screen.
Young women who are hikers or bike tourists accept rides from people they don’t know, routinely. They stay in Warm Showers homestays with people they don’t know.
Many young people couchsurf or stay in airbnbs of people they don’t know when traveling.
You may say that women should not expose themselves to possible sexual violence like this, but you should not say they don’t expose themselves to sexual violence like this. They do.
I would expect most teens to trust their youth pastor. Would parents encourage them otherwise? I did accept rides from co-workers and my boss when I was around that age. I could not have imagined being targeted/harassed that way. Times change, teenagers don’t.
The belief that everyone, including teenagers, has their own car and therefore doesn’t ever accept rides from other people… that is an odd belief. And it’s an incorrect belief.
Even as a man, I would be totally terrified of hitchhiking. It’s amazing the high risk behavior some people engage in.
While not as safe as a hotel, airbnb has a review system. Even if airbnb didn’t ban someone from the site, there’s a dual review system, where you can say this owner or customer is a creep. I gather couchsurfing or Warm Showers might have something similar? If someone has no reviews or bad reviews, it’s easy to find another location.
It is silly to get into a debate about whether women always have safe transportation or housing options. They don’t, especially if they are low income.
Even as someone who generally thinks the “No means No (unless the woman is incapable of consent)” standard is just fine, I can’t see how what the pastor did wasn’t sexual assault. This isn’t a peer making a pass at a woman at a party. This was a significantly older man in a position of trust who lied to a young woman to get her in a vulnerable position in which a reasonable person might fear the consequences of saying no. It also sounds like he exposed himself without any reason to believe this would be welcomed or appropriate, which in itself is a form of sexual misconduct; that’s essentially what Louis CK did.
I’m struggling more with James Franco. There’s enough evidence right now for me to think he has acted inappropriately toward women, but not enough for me to put him in the category of people who should be blackballed. The most serious allegation, which claims he guided a woman’s head toward his genitals, involved his then-current girlfriend, which changes the equation for me, and the others seem open to interpretations that might make them more or less egregious. Not every sleaze is an assaulter.
As a lit professor, I’m VERY hesitant to accept the idea that we need to boycott the works of problematic people.
Yup. We have gone from supporting allegations of rape and assault to supporting extermination of people’s career because of a perceived power dynamic ala James Franco. Enough already. We need to accept and promote women’s agency and inner strength.