<p>I live in California, so UCB would be about 15k in tuition a year, whereas Cornell -- with FA -- would be about 35k. I really want a new life experience and know that I want to get a PhD in Astrophysics. I want to teach.</p>
<p>Which department is better for Physics/Astronomy -- Berkeley's or Cornell's? </p>
<p>Also, I feel like I'm being selfish by wanting to go to Cornell. Are there any pluses to going to an ivy league undergrad that I'm overlooking? </p>
<p>Is it worth it?</p>
<p>Apply to both.</p>
<p>Decide after you have your admissions offers and financial aid packages.</p>
<p>Oh, that’s probably a good idea. </p>
<p>Any other parents though? I really feel like I’m stealing money from my parents. Basically no matter what the financial aid, it’s another 20k - 80k undergrad that my parents don’t have to retire with. I’m really ridden with guilt, I’m not sure if I should educate myself to my full potential at an expensive Ivy or if I should go to a UC for economic reasons where I might get a lesser experience.</p>
<p>Any private vs. public school differences that are major, particularly in science/math?</p>
<p>I agree with happymom. The cost of an application is a small price to pay for avoiding regret later down the road. You may as well throw your hat in the ring and see what happens. You aren’t bound to attend Cornell, and it may well make the decision for you; Cornell rejects 85-90% of applicants, after all.</p>
<p>Given that it’s so easy to apply to multiple UCs, you should definitely take a look at UCSC and maybe UCLA. Astronomy is extremely strong at UCSC, and it has a rather different atmosphere from Berkeley.</p>
<p>Academically, the primary difference between Cornell and Berkeley will be size. Berkeley has several times as many astronomy majors and twice as many physics majors. Socially/environmentally, the difference between the Bay area and Ithaca is huge.</p>
<p>You need to apply to both (and more) because you don’t know if you will be accepted! Once you see where you get in and what the real costs will be after FA then you can debate over which is the right choice.</p>
<p>If money is a big concern, read through the threads on guaranteed merit-based aid in the Financial Aid Forum. You may find something that works for you. But do this soon. Some of the cut-offs for scholarship priority are in Nov. and Dec.</p>
<p>Ah, okay, thanks guys.</p>
<p>I’m not interested in UCSC because, although it has a great Astronomy department, its physics and math departments are lacking. That’s to say, it specializes in optical astronomy – I’m more interested in theoretical astrophysics.</p>
<p>Thanks happymomof1, (and all), I’ll definitely look into that. I didn’t know they existed. Thanks.</p>
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</p>
<p>But are you sure that Cornell will be better than Berkeley for physics and astronomy? Granted, the following are for graduate level, but it calls into question the assumption that Cornell is automatically better (really, either is likely to be perfectly good academically for you, while either can be a better fit in other ways, including financial).</p>
<p>[Astronomy</a> / Astrophysics Graduate Program Ranking etc.](<a href=“Astronomy / Astrophysics Graduate Program Ranking etc. - Physics GRE Discussion Forums”>Astronomy / Astrophysics Graduate Program Ranking etc. - Physics GRE Discussion Forums)
[Ranking</a> of Astrophysics and Astronomy Graduate Schools — PhDs.org Graduate School Guide](<a href=“http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/astronomy/rank/basic]Ranking”>http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/astronomy/rank/basic)
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Astrophysics and Astronomy - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124705/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124705/)
[NRC</a> 2010 ranking of Astronomy&Astrophysics and Physics departments at Penn State](<a href=“http://www2.astro.psu.edu/users/nnp/dptrank.html]NRC”>http://www2.astro.psu.edu/users/nnp/dptrank.html)</p>
<p>Here are the big automatic merit schools:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html</a></p>
<p>Although not automatic, you may want to see if less selective schools like Hawaii and Arizona with good astronomy and physics departments have competitive large merit scholarships that you have a good chance for.</p>
<p>UCB Alumnus,</p>
<p>Yeah, I’ve seen the lists and I’m pretty sure that Berkeley has a better physics department. It’s just that I feel like I would do better in Cornell’s atmosphere. It’s just that I’m not sure how much that “Ivy League” seal is worth – or if I’m being unfair with my parents.</p>
<p>Be aware that Cornell has some pretty big classes, along the same model as a large state university like Berkeley, with a faculty led large lectures with TA-led discussion sections:</p>
<p>[Cornell</a> University Registrar: Course and Time Roster Fall 2012](<a href=“http://registrar.sas.cornell.edu/courses/roster/FA12/PHYS/]Cornell”>http://registrar.sas.cornell.edu/courses/roster/FA12/PHYS/)
[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?y=7&p_term=FL&p_deptname=Physics&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&x=11]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?y=7&p_term=FL&p_deptname=Physics&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&x=11)</p>
<p>Both Cornell and Berkeley have smaller honors versions of the introductory physics sequences (1116-2217-2218 instead of 1112-2213-2214-2216 at Cornell, H7A-H7B-H7C instead of 7A-7B-7C at Berkeley).</p>
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</p>
<p>Are you sure? last year, only 20 students graduated from the program at Berkeley.
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Astrophys.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Astrophys.stm</a></p>
<p>OP, Berkeley is the more prestigious school name not only in the USA, but also in other countries. In most parts of Europe, for instance, people would view Cornell in a league below Berkeley’s. Berkeley’s peers are Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Harvard and Princeton. But in terms of academics, I doubt if there’s any difference between Berkeley and Cornell. In other words, the only edge that Berkeley enjoys over Cornell is the brand name, which some people may find it vain. </p>
<p>If you don’t like Berkeley’s environment, don’t go there. You won’t thrive in an environment that you don’t like. If you like Cornell’s environment, go for it.</p>
<p>RML doesn’t know what he’s talking about; Cornell has a stronger brand name than Berkeley here in the U.S. Berkeley’s peers are UVA and Michigan, not HYPSM. That being said, I would go to UCB in this case since it so much cheaper for your family and still a great school.</p>
<p>^^^ Excuse me; But I have yet to see evidence/study/research where it shows Cornell has a bigger name than Berkeley has. All surveys about prestige that I have seen will point out that Berkeley is more prestigious than Cornell. </p>
<p>For overall, as well as, for physics, Berkeley is the bigger name. That it is not to say Cornell has no name. Cornell is very prestigious too. </p>
<p>OP, if you can afford to study in Cornell and you like it there more, go there. Some students at Harvard regretted having gone there because they didn’t like the vibe in the first place, yet they pursued it because of the H name. Heard the same stories for Berkeley too. Go where you think you’ll fit in well.</p>
<p>I’d go with Berkeley given you’re in-state. You can always go to Cornell for grad school and you’ll likely get a TA/RA-ship to pay the freight. You’ll need a PhD to get anywhere in Physics/Astronomy anyway so save Cornell for that.</p>
<p>Also, you should consider the weather - visit Cornell in January/February to make sure you can handle the cold. People from CA are shocked at how cold the East Coast is and people from the East Coast find Ithaca cold!</p>
<p>Also, Cornell is really more like a state school than an Ivy. Yes it’s in the “Ivy League” for sports but it’s considered the least prestigious of those schools.</p>
<p>Ah, the naive “you can always go there for grad school” quote rears its head again. Going to a top undergrad program does not mean that you will be admitted to a top graduate program. My daughter is a senior doing quite well in physics at Harvard. She is not currently applying to grad schools, but recently I spoke with one of the physics advisers at Harvard and he said that should she choose to apply he could see her getting in at some, all, or none of the top ten physics grad schools (this would include both UCB and Cornell). </p>
<p>I am in full agreement with RML that if Cornell is the better fit and affordable for your family, then go there. Otherwise Berkeley is a great option. However, as happymomof1 suggests it makes sense to apply to both because there is no certainty about admission to either.</p>
<p>[QS</a> World University Rankings - Topuniversities](<a href=“http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2012]QS”>QS World University Rankings 2012: Top Global Universities | Top Universities)
Cornell: #14
Berkeley: #22</p>
<p>OP, be sure to check out the physics program at the College of Creative Studies at UCSB. It’s arguably the best undergrad physics program in the entire UC system. [College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/)</p>
<p>Both Cal and Cornell will offer rigor and opportunity. The Ivy League imprimatur versus a degree from Cal isn’t going to matter as an undergrad physics major looking to apply to grad schools, so take that factor out of your list of pros and cons. Have you toured both schools?</p>
<p>I attended Cornell my first two years of college, and applied to transfer to Berkeley and Stanford. (I ended up graduating from both California schools.) I remember discussing with my then-girlfriend if we should give up the Ivy League thing. I now recall that as the silliest conversation of my life.</p>
<p>Cornell and Berkeley are both fine schools, but I would far rather have either of my sons attending Berkeley for in-state tuition than attending Cornell for full price. </p>
<p>I don’t see Ithaca as a reason not to attend Cornell, by the way, as much as I love living in the Bay Area. Ithaca’s a charming little city, wisurprising population density for its size, in an area of considerable natural beauty. There’s no shortage of options to choose from for Cornellians, on campus or off, who want diversions from their studies.</p>
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<p>Are you ready for the cold, freezing, dreary nights?</p>
<p>Climate data for Ithaca NY (1981-2010)
Month: Ave Hi, Ave Low in Fahrenheit, Snowfall
Dec: 35.8, 21.4, 13.5
Jan: 31.1, 14.7, 18.4
Feb: 33.7, 15.9, 14.6
Mar: 41.7, 23.1, 12.1</p>
<p>Climate data for Berkeley, CA (1981-2010)
Month: Ave Hi, Ave Low in Fahrenheit
Dec: 59, 43
Jan: 58, 42
Feb: 62, 44
Mar: 64, 46</p>