At what point does "prestige" become worth it?

College Search & Selection
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<p>First and foremost, I apologize for any bad grammar. What can I say, I'm an econ major.</p>

<p>I've recently been accepted for economics at Case Western, which was really shocking to me because it was one of my reach schools. I was so excited and decided right there on the spot that Case was the school for me. After doing a lot of research on the school, I fell even more in love and scheduled a tour for February. The only problem is that, because Case was a reach for me, I didn't get any merit aid. I did get an <em>estimated</em> 17k grant from theh CSS profile and an extra 2k shaved off if I participate in work/study, but that still brings my total costs to above 40k, which is possible for my parents to pay, but it'd really be a stretch since my brother is also going to college next year.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I was also accepted to Michigan State (in-state for me) and even into a Scholar's Program for social science students. However, I'm frightened by the sheer size of the school, and I've heard from multiple people that their econ courses are a joke. </p>

<p>I could take out the 27k in loans over 4 years for Case, but it has been my parents' dream for me to come out of college debt free. Taking out the loans woud certainly help lighten the initial load, and I wouldn't be taking out so much that it'd be so difficult to pay back.</p>

<p>My question is, then, when does "prestige" become worth it? I know that Case is certainly considered to a more "prestigious" school, but is Case economics "prestigious" enough to warrant taking out loans? </p>

<p>I still have yet to hear back from many other schools, so I guess this question could answer itself in due time. However, Case will always remain one of my top choices, so this is why I ask. My other top schools include University of Rochester (which would ultimately be even more reach-y than Case and will probably give even less money), Purdue University (OOS, probably unaffordable), College of Wooster, and Beloit College.</p>

<p>Thanks so much.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I don’t think case is worth the extra debt. I could understand taking that debt for an ivy league college or even a top 20 school so i guess that answers your question. If I were you, I’d think about killing it your first year or two then trying to transfer to a top 20. You’ll only get 2 or 3 years for high debt and still graduate from a prestigious school. </p>

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<p>First congrats, you should be pleased you application is being reviewed so well that you are getting opportunities already.</p>

<p>Just prestige is never worth it. But I don’t think you have a situation of prestige or no prestige. I just don’t see it. Certainly employers will not see it that way. Your alternate school isn’t disreputable or something. Sometimes HS kids or lay people may think a college is prestige if it is private because–costs money, must be better. Sure there are luxuries associated with private school but not necessarily prestige.</p>

<p>Servicing 27k of debt plus interest may be worth it if the choice is no college. But when the choice is not having that debt, don’t underestimate the freedom of that, when you start out you won’t have choices of job or location restricted as much. You will not have your discretionary money going to loan payments. You will be able to bank money 10 years earlier.</p>

<p>About the size of MSU, your scholars program immediately gives you a smaller community within a community to belong to. And the more you get into your major, the smaller your classes will be. People who take classes as a joke bring down the quality of the class sure. It is possible that intro classes have a lot of people who are just using it for gen eds or won’t otherwise be going farther in the major. I just question how far along those people were with the econ program, are they saying the whole program is a joke. Not very credible. Are these economists? Business people, academics or who?</p>

<p>I think you should keep an open mind and work out with your parents how the brother’s college is going to be paid for too. I know it is tough to have what you want so close but so far. Choices are always like this in life.</p>

<p>I just looked at the scholars page and they are really trying to give those students a personal experience, small cohort, study abroad, research, internships, mentoring, professional connections–looks like they are trying to provide the perks sometimes associates with private school.</p>

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<p>What does the net price calculator show for the schools you have not heard back from yet? What happens when you put in 2 kids in college instead of just one (possibly reflecting next year’s aid)?</p>

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<p>I was going to say, your brother going to school at the same time might actually be a good thing. Basically, your parents EFC does not change much with two kids in school, what two kids in school does in increase your chance in getting good FA. (If college keeps being this expensive, FA considerations may start being a serious consideration in planning how far apart to space the kids. You might want to plan for them being in college at the same time. But planning for a 20 year time horizon is a little difficult.)</p>

<p>As mentioned above, start thinking about what schools your brother will be looking at and the start running the EFCs as if you were both going to school. See if the numbers work. Maybe Case isn’t worth it, but I’m thinking your brother following on in a year may not be a reason not to go there.</p>

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<p>If that $27K is the total over 4 years, I’d say go to Case if that’s where you’re comfortable. I went to a huge state flagship my freshman year and didn’t learn squat sitting in lecture halls of 400 students.</p>

<p>If the $27K is per year, Case isn’t worth it. Go to Michigan State.</p>

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<p>Case will have large lecture halls as well. Whether you learn in such a setting is up to you the individual, though, IMO. One of my most enjoyable classes where I learned the most in undergrad was a large lecture class. Also, the OP would be entering an honors program at MSU, which would have smaller classes and more individualized attention.</p>

<p>Who was it who opined that econ at MSU is a joke? If I had to guess, I would think that the difference in prestige in economics between MSU Social Science Scholars and Case just isn’t that big among people who’s opinions you will care about (employers and grad schools). In fact, some folks may be more impressed by the SS Scholars program.</p>

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<p>BTW, why didn’t you apply to UMich for econ?</p>

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<p>Just out of curiosity - how good exactly is Case Western’s economics program? I thought they were known mostly for engineering / natural sciences. Do they have strong social science programs too?</p>

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<p>When the school’s name can open doors without you trying.</p>

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<p>A small body of research addresses the question of whether there is a significant financial return (greater future earnings) from attending a more selective/prestigious university.</p>

<p>The studies most frequently cited on CC, by Dale and Krueger, find that after controlling for the abilities of the students, there is no significant earnings advantage to attending a more selective school. Students admitted to both more and less selective colleges, but who choose to attend a less selective college, earn about as much as those who choose to attend a more selective college.
(<a href=“Estimating the Payoff to Attending a More Selective College: An Application of Selection on Observables and Unobservables* | The Quarterly Journal of Economics | Oxford Academic”>Estimating the Payoff to Attending a More Selective College: An Application of Selection on Observables and Unobservables* | The Quarterly Journal of Economics | Oxford Academic)</p>

<p>A couple of other researchers (Caroline Hoxby, Joni Hersch) reach different conclusions. The Dale and Krueger findings may be valid when comparing very selective colleges with slightly less selective colleges. However, there may still be a significant earnings payoff to attending a very selective college compared to a much less selective school (say, an Ivy League college versus one of the US News unranked/rank-not-reported colleges).</p>

<p>I doubt there is a significant earnings payoff to attending Case Western compared to Michigan State (enough to justify heavy debt for an econ major). Expect your own motivation and effort to make a much bigger difference. </p>

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<p>@simba9 I’d be taking out 27k over 4 years. So 5500k my freshman year, etc. Not a crippling amount.</p>

<p>@PurpleTitan My stats are too low for UMich. 3.4 UW GPA (probably lower depending on how schools recalculate it.) That being said, MSU told me they were going to recalculate my GPA and I ended up in an honors program, so who really knows how it would have played out. On top of that, my mom refused to let me apply because (wait for it) my ex goes there. Really, mom? It’s a huge school. But such is life.</p>

<p>To all those asking about my brother’s college costs, he’s committed to Oakland University (formerly MSU-Oakland) right down the street, and I think total costs are under 20k for him including room and board.</p>

<p>If I could pick one school over the other regardless of cost or “prestige,” I would pick Case just because of the size and atmosphere. I’m also an LGBT applicant, and Case is supposedly very LGBT-friendly. But the thing is, I’ve talked to students at both schools, including LGBT students at MSU, and they’ve all said that they were very happy with where they ended up. </p>

<p>I don’t know, maybe I’ll get accepted to Wooster with enough merit and need-based FA to get me there. That doesn’t mean I’ll go there, though. A big school like MSU means that there is no way that I will miss out on finding “my people.” If only Rochester would accept me with total costs under 40k, that’d be perfect.</p>

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<p>I doubt employers would think Case is “more prestigious” than MSU. Employers just aren’t impressed by such minor distinctions. </p>

<p>And, I highly doubt that MSU’s upper-division econ classes are a joke. You’re in high school. How many upper division econ students could you have talked to? </p>

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<p>As I mentioned in another post, you should really investigate the MSU Honors program closely, as some Honors programs are very good while others are “Honors” in name only. No idea which one MSU really is.</p>

<p>That said, I imagine the average student at Case will be at a much higher level than at MSU and maybe even the Honors program at MSU and that can make a huge difference to some students - what their surrounding peers are like. It’s nice to think that you can do equally well in both locations, but some students can’t, they need those around them to be serious students as well and find temptation among the large party crowd who will no longer be attending in a semester or two.</p>

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<p><<<
average student at Case will be at a much higher level than at MSU </p>

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<p>Well, of course that would be true when comparing a very large public with a small private that’s more techie oriented. However, when looking at the econ majors at either school, the differences probably aren’t that significant. </p>

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<p>. . . in higher level econ classes, you mean.</p>

<p>A greater percentage at MSU will wash out.</p>

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<p>Why would you assume that? Case doesn’t admit by major and I would assume that at MSU, even in the Honors program, the full spectrum of the freshman class is represented.</p>

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<p>“When the school’s name can open doors without you trying.”</p>

<p>No such thing. You still have to walk through the door. </p>

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<p>The full spectrum of the freshman class isn’t spread out equally amongst all majors. That is a myth. Top students are typically concentrated in about 15 majors, and a large school like MSU is likely offering 50+ majors. </p>

<p>And, we’re really talking about upper-division classes, so not frosh. I doubt that there is much difference between upper division econ classes at MSU vs Case…and not much difference in the academic strength of the students in those classes. </p>

<p>I highly doubt that any employer is going to pick a Case Econ grad over a MSU Econ grad based on undergrad name. lol…Heck, there are a lot of employers that have never heard of Case…but everyone has heard of Michigan State.</p>

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<p>There can be fairly significant differences in economics program rigor from school to school.
At some colleges, econ is a “gut” major. At others, it amounts to an applied math major and is very challenging.</p>

<p>John Siegfried and Wendy Stock co-authored a 2006 paper on the undergraduate origins of economics PhDs. For the period 1997-2003, Michigan State was among the 27 top American sources of eventual economics Ph.D.s It ranked near the bottom of that group … but had as many as Northwestern and Duke (albeit from a much larger undergraduate population). Case Western was not among the top producers.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t necessarily use this statistic as a sole (or even major) basis for choosing a college. However, I’d consider it one indicator that Michigan State probably has a rigorous enough economics program to meet most students’ needs (assuming you seek out the more challenging courses). Check the online course catalogs, program requirements and faculty bios if you still have concerns.</p>