@intparent UC berkeley. Its ridiculously competitive but he is a much different kid and it doesnt seem to bother him that everything is graded on a curve meaning DAY 1 of each semester the teachers announce what percent will get A’s, what percent get B’s, What percent get C’s., etc.
Hi @momof2eagles, It really depends on your child. Have you heard about the Swarthmore t-shirts that say “Anywhere else it would’ve been an A”? On the other hand, Pomona has reputation for athletics not being popular.
I don’t think of Swat as a jock school, either. They seem similar in that respect.
DS says a lot of the students at Swat are varsity athletes and many more play club or intermural sports. There aren’t a lot of parties and plenty of students don’t go to the parties there are. The school has events throughout the year, like the Yule Ball in January. Mostly people hang out with their friends, go occasionally into Philly, and most definitely talk politics or philosophy late into the night. DS says there’s not much to do but he seems very happy academically and socially. He LOVES his classes and profs. DH took him to the admitted students weekend last April and he was extremely impressed. I don’t know anything about Pomona except that it has better weather if you don’t like winter.
Does anyone know why Swarthmore dropped in Forbes ranking?
It dropped? I see it ranked 7th? Thats very high - there is probably minimal difference between the top 10 ranked schools.
Our D has enjoyed Swat thoroughly. She played a sport and took on several other responsibilities. She will soon be embarking on a Ph.D. at her top choice graduate school. A classmate achieved All-American status as an athlete and was accepted at Stanford for a Ph.D. in engineering. There are many similar stories. Yes, Swarthmore is a challenging school, but, as @nostalgicwisdom noted, the whole grade deflation trope is overblown. Many students graduate with GPAs in the 3.8 and 3.9 range. Swarthmore is not for everybody, but if you come in with the right mindset, it will open countless doors. When our D visited graduate schools and met students from other colleges, she truly came to appreciate just how much a Swarthmore education was worth.
@ilovepomona / @khanam - It’s nice when schools you’re affiliated with are ranked higher, but at the levels we’re talking (#1 versus #20), they mean very little to any individual person.
Because I’m waiting for the shower on a holiday…I decided to investigate a bit. Here is the Forbes methodology for 2008:
- Listing of Alumni in the 2008 Who’s Who in America (25%)
- Student Evaluations of Professors from Ratemyprofessors.com (25%)
- Four- Year Graduation Rates (16 2/3%)
- Enrollment-adjusted numbers of students and faculty receiving nationally competitive awards (16 2/3%)
- Average four year accumulated student debt of those borrowing money (16 2/3%)
Current Methodology:
- Student Satisfaction (25%)
- Post-Graduate Success (32.5%)
- Student Debt (25%)
- Graduation Rate (7.5%)
- 3-Year Moving Average: (rest? - no % given)
The particulars of each section change every year. Are they improving the formula, or do changes in the method ensure changes in the rankings? Would anyone buy the list if they knew the top 10 for 10 years running? In 2008, Pomona was ranked 20; Stanford 23; Swarthmore 4. Last year, Swat dropped from 3 to 7. In the end, any school is the top 30 or 40 or 50 is a great place to learn, so long as you find the one that’s right for you.
To the broader discussion around atmosphere, I could second the comments made by @coase. When a school has varsity athletics, you have to appreciate that you need enough students for a team. Quick math on Swat would tell you that they need hundreds of kids to play sports, and that when the total population is less than 1,600, by default a large percentage of kids will be athletes. While they are very serious about playing their sports, every athlete I’ve met has a clear focus on their studies, and appreciates how athletics fit into their long term goals.
Regarding grades, my feel is that grade deflation depends on the major. The STEM majors seem to be more difficult (based on a tiny sample size). Discussing grades is so infrequent, that it’s really difficult to know. I would suggest that a lower GPA, coupled with high graduate school test scores, is appreciated by admissions officers when Swarthmore students move on to grad school.
Final comment - While parties aren’t everywhere, I do believe they aren’t difficult to find. The school takes a very hands off approach to parties (which I agree with), and it seems like parties are just slightly more laid back than your standard Frat House get together.
Academically, there really isn’t much of a difference between Swarthmore & Pomona - i do not believe there is a wrong choice in selecting either.
There is a big difference in 2 aspects that should be considered:
- The Claremont college consortium is the most tightly knit one I have seen. The Swat/BMC/Haverford one is not as practical with longer shuttle/drives in cold/snowy weather vs a walk in a 1 sq mile box for the Claremont colleges in CA weather. There is some advantage in having more practically useful cross registration options for courses, a synchronized schedule between the 5 colleges and so on.
- The quality of life in the northeast is not comparable to being in temperate CA. 4 years of being in CA vs having to bear with blizzards and snowy winters in the NE while living alone... it gets to you. Most of my buddies' kids who went to CA to study never came back. Obviously, there is a reason for that. @momof2eagles you might want to think about retiring to AZ or somewhere like that. Your boys might not want to come back to the east coast lol!
- Did not know about the better food options at Pomona. That could also play into the final decision with academics being equivalent.
Swarthmore actually draws more students from California than any other state. Of course, many students prefer to stay close to home for their undergraduate years, and then move further away for graduate school or for employment.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/news-events/swarthmore-opens-classes-welcomes-class-2019
Yes but it is for academic reasons - I sincerely doubt any CA kid who gets into say Pomona/CMC and Swat (roughly equivalent LACs) will choose Swat, or for that matter any college in snow/blizzard country unless they are going for a special program to that a similar CA college does not offer or there is a discrepancy in FA between the colleges or the GF/BF is also moving to NE or they need to escape the parents.
Academically Swarthmore is brilliant and no one is stating that it wont attract CA kids but if you are to measure the gamut of college experience you have to acknowledge that having a worse quality of life for 4 years in terms of worse weather is a big deal. Its just a lot more pleasant in SoCal than in the NE. Now if they start getting quakes again, I guess the weather will all of a sudden take a back seat…
@khanam if you were born and raised in SoCal, wouldn’t leaving paradise provide a broader college experience? I know this may sound strange, but some people enjoy the snow. I think it’s snowed twice this year.
I’d be more worried about the food and dorms for quality of life than the weather.
@EyeVeee Touche! That is a fair point. Ok yes I do accept that would have some attraction to those born and brought up in SoCal.
Also yeah I remember the horrid mush that passed for dorm food in my time before students wizened up.
I’m from SoCal and didn’t apply to a single private in California or the West coast. I just wanted to get out and experience more, at least for 4 years.
@EyeVeee: I agree completely. Moreover, I find Swarthmore to be delightful in the fall and the spring. (Over 300 acres of the campus is an arboretum, so the color can be breath-taking.) I am also one of those people who thinks that a small snowfall makes a campus more attractive. It gets old when snow stays around for a couple of weeks, but that is a small price to pay for the glorious seasons in the Mid-Atlantic region.
There are a lot more food options at Pomona (my kid at the 5Cs says the food varies a lot across the dining halls at each college, and she and her friends often eat in the other campuses). I have eaten in the Swat cafeteria a couple of times. It was okay (I didn’t really like the setting – it is sort of “basementy”, although nicely decorated).
Also, Swat does not have football – so there are a fair number of athletes, but not as many as are needed at some LACs.
@khanam Regarding food: one of the benefits of the consortium is that your meal plan entitles you to eat at any of 7 dining halls. You can see a sample of a week’s menus here. https://aspc.pomona.edu/menu/. Also the different dining rooms essentially compete with each other for “swipes.” As with many colleges, the dining services contract with outside companies. I believe CMC and Pitzer use Café Bon Appetit, Harvey Mudd and Scripps use Sodexo and Pomona is independent. But the on-campus competition is unique and hopefully leads to better food choices.
@Corinthian oh! that is quite interesting. thats why the pomona dining options are so good then!
For many people, air quality is a more important issue than food quality. There was a brief discussion of the air quality at Pomona here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1477116-air-quality-in-pomona-ca.html The AQI for Claremont and for Swarthmore can be found here:
http://www.usa.com/claremont-ca-air-quality.htm
http://www.usa.com/swarthmore-pa-air-quality.htm
Here are some of the numbers for the Swarthmore admits to the class of 2020. http://daily.swarthmore.edu/2016/03/31/swarthmore-2020-an-infographic/