audio engineering help. confused.

<p>Ok, im a senior in highschool, I'm a musician myself, I've been playing guitar and singing for close to 5 years and have gotten into recording, i record myself and have worked with live sound for awhile so i know what I'm doing pretty well. Im looking to go to college for audio engineering/music technology/(i don't even know what else it could be called) but basically I wanna someday work in a studio producing/engineering music, or working in a live setting doing the same. Ive become extremely confused by the whole thing and what to major in and what to do. It seems everywhere i look i keep getting full sail thrown at me and I'm kinda drawn to the idea of only taking classes for what i need and no other nonsense (math, english, ect.) but I've also heard some bad things about full sail as well. Im from new jersey but going away isn't a problem, id actually like to be in a more "musical" type of place where more opportunities in the business could arise. I understand that some colleges require me to try out with an instrument or something and that is something I'm comfortable doing since I've played for so long. Full sail, Berklee, The art institute in Philly, and Belmont are all colleges on my radar. Thoughts? Help? PLease? thanks!</p>

<p>Have you looked through the thread that’s listed as a “Hot Topic” at the top of this forum? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1303515-recording-audio-engineer-colleges.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1303515-recording-audio-engineer-colleges.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There are others, as well, if you search the Music Forum for “audio engineering.”</p>

<p>i did read through that thread as well as others and it just kinda confused me more that why I made a new one, I thought it would be easier if someone helped me and answered my questions personally.</p>

<p>My son is a working live sound engineer.</p>

<p>His take is that Full Sail may get you an entry level job but it isn’t highly respected in the field and you’re looking at a career of doing low-end work like loading and unloading trucks.</p>

<p>The Audio Engineering Society maintains a list of schools, both auditioned and non-auditioned at [AES</a> Education Directory](<a href=“http://www.aes.org/education/directory/]AES”>AES Education Directory) and that’s a good place to start looking.</p>

<p>S will be a Music Technology major at Capital in Columbus, OH this fall. Both BA and BM (audition on an instrument required) are offered there. It’s going to get you a “real” college degree, unlike Full Sail, if that matters to you.</p>

<p>Here is the AES entry for it:</p>

<p>[AES</a> Education Directory Capital University Conservatory of Music](<a href=“http://www.aes.org/education/directory/institutions.cfm?InstID=542]AES”>AES Education Directory » Capital University Conservatory of Music)</p>

<p>…and for the required work (for the Capital MT degree) at [AES</a> Education Directory Recording Workshop (RECW)](<a href=“http://www.aes.org/education/directory/institutions.cfm?InstID=109]AES”>AES Education Directory » Recording Workshop (RECW))</p>

<p>If you are going to major in any engineering field some math classes will be required. You might not need a full set of gen eds but you’ll probably also have to take a few humanities classes.</p>

<p>You don’t mention what kind of academic performance record you have, which would make a difference in terms of which schools we’d recommend as possible fits for you. I would assume that given your recording background, you have a number of multi-tracked, stereo recordings for a portfolio and that you’re already pretty adept at protools and such?</p>

<p>Berklee might satisfy both your desire to NOT pursue a lot of additional academic courses AND your desire to work in an environment where it’s possible to network. Belmont is regarded as a top-drawer program with obvious industry linkages in Nashville.</p>

<p>Are your parents prepared/in a position to support the kind of $50,000-plus a year costs to attend these schools? Belmont might turn out to be a little less expensive than Berklee, but you would likely do well to tour both and see if they’ll let you sit in on some classes.</p>

<p>Another program that a contemporary musician (eg guitar as opposed to an orchestra player) might enjoy which combines both sound reinforcement (live sound) and recording engineering is the Indiana Bloomington’s Jacobs School of Music degree in RA, which is a science degree. Grades may be a little more relevant for this program than Berklee, but not as tough as other music eng schools such as University of Michigan, etc.</p>

<p>Let us know about your SAT/ACT/GPA combo and we can give you better direction, I think – and let us know how finances play into the equation – that can make a BIG difference.</p>

<p>Lots of schools have music production/audio engineering/music technology programs. You have to sift through them to see if they are what you are looking for. Some of the schools we encountered with these kinds of programs in addition to this mentioned were:</p>

<p>Middle Tennesee State University (MTSU)
University of Hartford/Hartt School
Northeastern University
CCNY
College of St. Rose
U Miami/Frost</p>

<p>Be aware, Full Sail is a for-profit entity, and therefore, it is in their best interest to get as much money from you as possible.</p>

<p>as far as my grades go I’m a straight A student with like maybe 3.9 GPA, SAT scores are around 1500 (first attempt) The more I read about berklee I’m not sure about it, I feel it might be a bit out of my price range as well as to hard to get into. My two main options at the time are looking to be full sail as well as belmont. Im actually visiting full sail this weekend. Im a little skeptical about it tho, I feel almost that because its not like a normal school that maybe its not as “legitimate” or as good as say belmont or a “normal” college. Thoughts? Whats a better school in your opinion? belmont or full sail?</p>

<p>I’m leery of for-profit colleges in general, so I’d choose Belmont or many other programs before I’d choose Full Sail. I also think it’s worth getting an actual bachelor’s degree.</p>

<p>Just to put it in perspective, both AI and Full Sail spend over 60% of incoming tuition on marketing. Plenty of money spent on advertising and their sales force and very little on your education.</p>

<p>Even “Fool Sale” requires some nonsense like math and english. Other than going to a conservatory, I don’t think you can get around that, and conservatories don’t offer audio engineering.</p>

<p>Check out William Paterson university. I seem to recall they have audio production</p>

<p>Oh also forgot, looking at the art institute in Philly, how do you guys feel about that? I haven’t heard anyone even mention any of them before, good? bad?</p>

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<p>???
This is not true. Eg. Peabody.
And the words conservatory and music school are pretty much interchangeable, so in that sense, the best programs are actually at conservatories and schools of music. Where else are you going to get the ear training?</p>

<p>OP, trust your instincts about full sail. You have strong grades, and audio engineering is a field that favors those with an aptitude for math and science (physics in particular.) You’d be better off with a bachelor degree from a reputable school if you can manage it financially. The problem with pure vocational (for profit) programs is that they teach the technology, but the technology changes fast, often before you even graduate. You want to learn the principals behind the technology so that you’re a quick study when you’re working, and you do not want to limit yourself out of the gate.</p>

<p>With a strong academic record, you may wish to apply to some of the top programs in addition to brlmont, although Belmont sounds like a great fit. All the programs are pretty competitive, so you want to apply to several. Check out Indiana/Jacobs too, I have a feeling it might be a good fit for you, and they give automatic scholarships for students with particular combinations of gpa and stats. They also have one of the more reasonable out-of-state fees compared to university of Michigan, for example.</p>

<p>What state do you live in now? Have you looked at music schools in state to see if they have the program?
Best wishes in your search.</p>

<p>On our Berklee tour last fall, our tour guide told us that students are not accepted into a specific major when they first start at the school. It is after a few semesters that students can apply for a major like music production, electronic production, etc. and definitely not all are accepted into these majors. My son was interested in performance, so I don’t recall the acceptance rates, so perhaps someone else can address this. One of them was a 50% acceptance rate. So after a year or two at Berklee, you still might not get into the program you truly wanted, it sounds like – help me out here someone!</p>

<p>KMC, sorry, I should have said “most conservatories” don’t offer audio engineering. There are always a few exceptions. I should learn to never speak in absolutes, there is always someone waiting to pounce on me when I do that.</p>

<p>Generally, most conservatories, at least the more traditional (old timey) ones require fewer GE classes than most non-conservatory music schools. Thats why there is a difference. At my son’s college, for his particular BM degree, only 90 out of 132 credit hours are in music. One of the colleges that he applied at it was only 66 out of 120 credit hours (despite the fact that they compare themselves to a conservatory - “a conservatory within a liberal arts framework” or something like that). But most true conservatories it would be more like 90+% music. So I would suggest that there is a difference between a typical conservatory and a typical college music school, even if it just a slight difference in curriculum and nothing more.</p>

<p>At least one college has a conservatory, and a seperate school of music. So at that school, I wouldn’t think that the terms were interchangable. When people ask me what my son is doing, I tell them that he is at the USC School of Music (South Carolina not So Cal). I think that it would be dishonest to call the USC School of Music a conservatory since no one else calls it that. When people hear “conservatory” they think "The Juliard School, not the U of Mystate.</p>

<p>S attends a conservatory within a private U. It’s called a conservatory and admission is based on audition. It also has a Music Tech major (BM). There are a few GE requirements but honestly not many, 1 or 2 a semester: <a href=“http://www.capital.edu/uploadedFiles/Capital/Academics/Schools_and_Departments/Music_and_Communication/Conservatory/Music_Majors/Content/BM%20Music%20Tech%20Plan.pdf[/url]”>http://www.capital.edu/uploadedFiles/Capital/Academics/Schools_and_Departments/Music_and_Communication/Conservatory/Music_Majors/Content/BM%20Music%20Tech%20Plan.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Berklee’s Music Production degree looks very similar…30 credits tech, 40 credits theory, etc and 40 liberal arts.</p>

<p>Is there a conservatory where one can earn a BM and take no “regular” classes? Even Julliard requires quite a few liberal arts courses.</p>

<p>I understand that there are colleges that have true conservatories within them.</p>

<p>Admission is based on audition at most music schools (note I said “most”), at least the ones that my son checked into, even those that don’t call themselves conservatories. Most music schools do requires 30+ hours of general ed classes, while most conservatories requires less than 30 hours of music classes. If I was going to try to define the difference between a conservatory and a school of music, I would think that the number of liberal arts classes would be the defining difference.</p>

<p>I just checked the curriculum for a BM at Juliard for my son’s instrument, and it looks to me that they only require 5 non-music classes total (unless you want to consider music history a non-music class). Even those few non-music classes are very related to the arts, such as “LARTS 212 — Art and Aesthetics” or “LARTS 112 — Society, Politics, and Culture”. No math, no Eng 101, no economics, no sociology or psychology (except where it may be related to the arts) no world history, no western civ, no chemistry, no biology, no public speaking, etc. I would suggest that Juliard is very typical of schools that I would call “conservatories”.</p>

<p>And I would agree that the program that you linked to is more like a conservatory program than a typical “school of music”.</p>

<p>Good points. I’ve been wondering about the “conservatory” vs “school of music” distinction for awhile now. S applied to both types but I wasn’t looking too closely at how many “non-music” classes he’d have to take in the different schools since once he visited and auditioned (often our first visit WAS the audition) he really only liked the “feel” of the one he eventually chose. </p>

<p>It seems music tech/audio engineering is being offered more and more, in some form, at both schools of music and conservatories. CCM just added one for this fall.</p>