<p>All right, for the past ever, I've growingly realized that my English classes have been a complete and utter waste of my time. Every book we read is impertinent and irrelevent to anything, ever. They provide no real insight useful to anything, and then people write essays about how deep the book was, despite the fact that the author probably never meant all the stuff the essayist is inferring. Then I have to write an essay about why the essayist is right, even though i think they're wrong. </p>
<p>Bottom line, I'm tired of this crap. I'm hoping to get away from it at college, so i wanted some input. Whenever I leave for school, I want to go somewhere that will challenge me in the sciences/engineering, but leave English(particularly literature) by the wayside so I can focus on what actually matters.</p>
<p>So in general, if I were to go to a good Sci/Eng. school would I end up with an English/Lit program that's just as hard?</p>
<p>Particularly, I'm looking at MIT, Case Western, Virginia Tech, and Carnegie Mellon. Any similar colleges would be helpful too. So thanks in advance</p>
<p>And I know that some people think these books are fun, but I don't, and I don't see why I have to do them. So blah.</p>
<p>I may not be able to answer your question directly,but I can give you an indirect answer. I see many people in business and science who are very smart in their field yet get very few promotions.Why do these technically smart people get passed over by those that may not be as gifted? The answer is two fold in my opinion:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>First, most science and business types can't write. This is an amazingly important skill in the real world. I can tell you that those who are good writers and communicators will have a HUGE edge over those that don't have these skills. I can't stress this enough. If you want my advice, take every course you can in writing and grammar and suck up all the information to the best of your ability. It may not seem as important as your science course now,but, trust me, developing these skills will become crucial.</p></li>
<li><p>The second reason is that those that don't get ahead lack people skills. It is vital to be able to communicate both verbally and orally. Being a "People person" and having good "political skills" are very important in the real world if you want to get ahead and have a sucessful career. In my opinion, reading lots of good books, honing both writen and oral skills helps with both problems.<br>
You may not believe what I wrote here,but you will in the future. Save yourself a lot of grief and take my advice to heart!</p></li>
</ol>
<p>well, I understand that, and it's all good information, but I hate to say it's irrelevent. In the real world, if I have to type a paper, it's not going to be about how the River was a god in the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. It's going to be something relevent. I can write just fine, as a matter of fact very very well, when it's about something relevent, but I'm bad at writing to support something I don't agree with.</p>
<p>no the paper wont be about Huck Funn. however, the skills you get in that paper will carry on in the later years. analytical skills are extremely important, both in college and in the working world.</p>
<p>this is ironic, but i actualy just wrote an essay on this very topic for my writing class at USC. it was about the ethical responsibilities of universities in preparing students for the real world. i argued that you have to combine professional training (ie: specific to the major) with liberal arts.</p>
<p>just so you know, an average person is expected to have 5-7 careers and about 10 different jobs over a lifetime now. that is excatly why liberal arts is important. say you major in engineering but just cant get very far with it in life. well, because you had liberal arts you might be able to go teach the subject now, instead of practicing it. </p>
<p>the skills you learn in liberal arts education are vital to survival in the working world. since everything is now basicaly the survival of the fittest, the more skills you posses the more rounded individual you'll be so you'll have advantage over those who lack liberal education.</p>
<p>sure, i hate taking my GEs because they're boring. however, in every single one so far i have learned something that i KNOW i will apply to my future.</p>
<p>just noticed this:
"but I'm bad at writing to support something I don't agree with."</p>
<p>thats the thing though, you'll have to do that! in pretty much every college you'll have to take at least one writing class and often times you wont agree with the subject. so argue against it. be pursuasive. that's what you learn through this.
the same thing in the working world. you often have to argue against something.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First, most science and business types can't write.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I thought since you are a liberal arts "buff" you would know not to generalize. That's just a totally untrue statement. I know several science and business majors who can write better than liberal arts majors. </p>
<p>And 9 times out of 10 a more specialized major gets a better job than a liberal arts major. Think: Engineering vs. English.</p>
<p>yes, most specialized majors get a better job. i dont think there is an argument in that.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, who do you think would get a better job or perform better on the job : an engineering major with no liberal arts or one that has taken several liberal arts courses? i would argue that the second person would be a better worker because he would have several ways to look at the same problem and apply more than simple checklists. liberal arts teaches, and often emphasizes, on ethics and morals.</p>
<p>right, but I'm not questioning the importance of being able to write well. I'm asking about whether I'll have to analyze stupid irrelevent subjects in college for an important grade.</p>
<p>yeah unfortunately you most likely will.. however that will depend on how yoru college is structured. for example, here at USC our writ140 class is affiliated with a GE class. in my case, im taking philosophy as a GE so my writing class is somewhat related to the material we learn in phil.</p>
<p>as an example, in my writing classes i have written on the following subjects:
1) the need for liberal arts education
2) responsibilities of a lawyer towards his client
3) gender ineqaulities in professions
4) responsibilities of american corporations overseas. aka: (child) labor ethics
5) influence of the media on professional image.</p>
<p>Distribution requirements at most colleges are not subject-specific, though schools that require a core curriculum will require some single-subject courses. That means that you can probably avoid literature courses, but will likely need to take a couple of philosophy, art history, foreign language etc. to satisfy general humanities and/or fine arts requirements.</p>
<p>At most selective schools you will end up doing a lot of writing in humanities and social science classes and once you get into the workplace you will be glad you did. Business or technical writing may be useful for you as well, so a course or two in one of those areas, if offered, won't hurt you.</p>
<p>Great literature is relevant to you and your life. . .that's why it's great literature. And I'd advise you to stick with some literature study, at least until you learn what "impertinent" means and how to spell "relevant."</p>
<p>I dont know about the Sciences but in most of the engineering programs my S is looking at there are very few required general education courses. All the programs he is considering require freshmen to take a one semester Expository Writing course (or similar). One of the ChemE programs he is looking at requires just 12 general education credits out of the 132 needed to grad. Thats only four GE courses spread over eight semesters. Wow!</p>
<p>The truth is even at MIT you will not be able to avoid taking liberal arts classes. If you haven't looked at the MIT core, you probably should. It requires 4 communications intensive courses, two of which must be in humanities or social sciences PLUS a minimum of 8 humanities, arts and social science classes (i.e., literature, history, psychology). </p>
<p>And, MIT is the probably most "technical" of the schools on your current list. If you investigate the graduation requirements of the others you'll find you probably need similar classes, and yes, probably also some required English or literature classes.</p>
<p>UC_Benz notes," thought since you are a liberal arts "buff" you would know not to generalize. That's just a totally untrue statement. I know several science and business majors who can write better than liberal arts majors. "</p>
<p>Obviously, I have made a generalization;however, this generalization was based on actual experience and observation from working in business over 30 years and hiring hundreds of kids. For the record, I was not a liberal arts or English major,but I majored in Accounting of all things. Thus, I do know that some business and science majors can write well. However, the general rule, and it is admittedly my opinion, is that science majors and business majors don't write as well as they should. They also, in my opinion, don't usually have the people skills that real life demands.</p>
<p>If you write well as an engineer or businessman, you will come off better than 90% of your colleagues.</p>
<p>Most B-Schools like majors with a liberal arts background (and the proper math classes).</p>
<p>Liberal arts courses are often more "learning" intensive--they build learning skills, not practical skills...so you can be successful at anything.</p>
<p>I'll be majoring in fine arts, but I feel ya. Think AP and get as much out of the way as possible now if it's not too late. You can exempt the freshman writing requirement at most colleges if you score a 4 or 5 on either of the AP English exams. I'm loading up on as many AP and community college courses as possible so I'll be able to exempt not only freshman writing, but ALL math and science courses as well as some introductory humanities requirements. I want to concentrate on my major, too. I'm sick of writing busy work essays about nothing and memorizing kings and queens history that ignores or breezes over the important stuff. I know how to write and I dang well know how to think for myself. If all goes well on the exams, the largest number GE classes I'll have to take outside my major at any of my college choices will be six over the entire four years. During some semesters, I'll have to pick an extra outside course to stay full-time, but it will be one that actually piques my interest and is taught by a well-regarded professor. Good luck.</p>
<p>
[quote]
liberal arts teaches, and often emphasizes, on ethics and morals.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hmm...so business and science majors are unethical and immoral? That's an interesting conclusion. I don't think you can categorize the types of people that are in business/science or liberal arts fields; its impossible. </p>
<p>And playtothebeat...you proceed to say that specialized majors get better jobs, THEN you ask who gets better jobs? You answered your own question.</p>
<p>i did not say that businessmen or engineers or what not are unethical. i simply said that GEs concentrate more on those aspects than do specialized courses.</p>
<p>also what i meant about jobs (i just realized i did not make it clear at all, sorry) is that a person with GE background will have a better chance of performing well as compared to someone with teh same specialized education but no GE/liberal arts.</p>
<p>You guys are exaggerating all of this. Reading fiction does not help in any kind of writing you would do as an engineer and people skills are developed by experiences outside school.</p>
<p>Zninjazero, most schools will have a core curriculum. There's nothing you can do about it except take out a few by doing AP in high school.</p>
<p>Perhaps you're not clear on what liberal arts courses emphasize--writing in ALL the disciplines. Not reading "fiction." I'd hardly call Thucydides, Plato, or Freud "fiction."</p>