Awkward situation with PI, advice very much welcome!

<p>I think it is very important not to be a pain in the neck.</p>

<p>Starting off by complaining–even politely–about having to work with someone else and so forth is unlikely to be a good idea. You are being brought into this lab as a HS student, the low man on the totem pole. It would behoove you to start out by doing a great job on what was assigned to you, being reliable, having a great attitude. Then you can look about you for something else to do and make you desire to do more work known. You will have established yourself as a valuable team member who works hard without complaint and drama and gets done what needs to get done. Such a person is much more likely to be given new assignments by a manager than a person who creates problems and requires that energy and attention be taken away from more important matters to meet their personal needs.</p>

<p>Everyone here is giving you excellent advice. As I used to tell my kids, you don’t get to start out at a company by being the president. If other studentds being brought in have more lab experience, education, experience in working collaboratively or collegially with others in a university research lab setting, they have earned that. Please be very VERY grateful for the opportunity you have, as someday it will be you in the position that the college grad iscurrently in.</p>

<p>I happen to be a principal investigator (albeit in a different research field) and was dismayed at the OP’s attitude. Our research teams have research assistants who are recent college graduates and they work under guidance from a more senior researcher and collaboratively with each other. I don’t think that by being paired with another junior staff the OP will be denied the opportunity to learn new techniques. I have research assistants who are so hard working that we assign them tasks that would otherwise be conducted by more senior researchers. Thus, it’s up to you to prove to the PI what opportunities you deserve to be offered. The OP’s expectations that the grad students should let him do “things on my own” and that he “will plan everything” reflect a selfish personality – I would not want someone with that attitude in my research projects. I also find it that the OP is second-guessing the PI in his decision to have a second HS intern.</p>

<p>You should concentrate on being helpful, not impressive.</p>

<p>The research project exists to accomplish something for a benefit to others, not for you to use it for a science competition. That’s like saying that programs to feed poor the poor exist so humanitarian workers can win awards, not so the poor can eat!</p>

<p>Being young requires patience, just when your young mind and body has less patience than at any other time in life.</p>

<p>I think your attitude on this may reflect a lifestyle geared to “getting in” and winning prestige. If I were you, rather than focusing on changing your internship, I would sit back and reflect on values and how you really want to live your life.</p>

<p>Not said in judgment, just good to do at this juncture in your life, before you go on to choose a college.</p>

<p>If you would like to have your own research project then you need to write a grant and get it funded. It seems with all your expertise that this will not be a problem.</p>

<p>Then you can actually hire your own grad student to show you the short cuts and do the busy work while you do the important stuff.</p>

<p>@bookworm, that’s a good point. My mentor goes on vacation before the school year, so I don’t know if he’ll be around to give us a new one. Still, I can talk to others probably.</p>

<p>@Katheih, sounds good. I will just mention very politely that it’d be nice if we got some chances to work independently or address different aspects of the same question. I’m not a ‘glory hunter’ at all, I just want a chance to do work independently and really learn. Like ideally, that’s how I would choose to learn. Whatever, I guess I will make the best of it.</p>

<p>@barium- nice name, lol. Yes, I know it’s suitable. It’s never been investigated before though it’s relatively simple to do. I didn’t really discuss it with him because I was intimidated when I first met with him and thought it would be not proper of me. :confused: I’m thinking now that I’ll do my best this summer and really contribute and learn techniques and stuff so that I can ask him in September if I can continue working in his lab, on a project that’s science fair eligible. My thinking is that at least- that I would show I am reliable and hardworking and passionate + I know techniques, so I would be more of a help than a hinder, which is the case for most HS students. </p>

<p>@whydoicare It’s not a standalone project, by far. It’s just part of a bigger investigation in the lab. If I get it done, it’s a benefit to a certain research group. Still, I see your point. Science Fair is important for college admissions for me, but I can focus on that later.</p>

<p>@astults, thanks. I will do my best with what I have and succeed at that.</p>

<p>@consolation. I think I understand what everyone is trying to tell me now. I will do what you say. I’ve just been in bad positions before with stuff like this, where I never even got to really touch the experiments so maybe that is why I am so wary. However, I’ll do my best with what I have.</p>

<p>@jym. The other girl has no research experience whatsoever. She’s just a rising freshman in college, a HS graduate. Still, I see your point.</p>

<p>@4my2girls I have 0% problem being paired with a grad student. I have 0% problem with collaborating with him and listening to him. The person I am talking about has never worked in a lab before. She is as green, or perhaps even more green than me. I’m, or rather I was upset that I’ll lose an opportunity to work independently because I’ll be put with another person. Many people here have pointed out to me that is not simply the case and I understand that. The whole “planning experiments and stuff” is what the people said to me. They literally said “we’ll give you an intro, and then we’re cutting you loose”. I was thinking that I would be denied the opportunity to do work on my own by being paired with this girl, but I think I’m freaking out for no reason now. We still get to learn! </p>

<p>Plus, the “planning experiments” is important to me solely because I want to know how it’s like, how it’s done! The experiments are just tools, and I want to learn how to effectively design experiments so I can do that as a professional researcher later in my life. I really really really really really love science and I want to know how it’s done and get a chance to do it. That’s it. Anyways, I think I can learn from this, so it should all be good. </p>

<p>@compmom, I see what you’re saying. I want very much to be successful with my applications to top universities. It’s very important for me and my family. Still, I need to keep it in perspective and understand that it’s not all about me. </p>

<p>@sax. I feel like you didn’t really understand what I was saying/getting at, so whatever.</p>

<p>Anyways, in conclusion, this is what I have decided to do:</p>

<ul>
<li>Meet with my PD. He’ll probably say something similar to what you all have said already and give me tips to approach my PI.
-Meet with the PI. Politely say that while I have no problem working with the other girl, it would be fantastic if there were some opportunities to work independently as well through the project.</li>
<li>Work on the project and enjoy working on it and learning stuff.</li>
<li>Think about life.</li>
<li>Hopefully be a good, helpful person and ask if I can stay on in the fall for a project that’s science fair material.</li>
</ul>

<p>Haha, I definitely know I’m applying to Caltech now.</p>

<p>Also, thanks for the responses! I understand everything now and feel much more calm and prepared.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, I am very impressed by your response in this last post. Very mature attitude, and you are certainly a good “listener”. Good luck!</p>

<p>I echo compmom, but if I were you I would skip the first two steps for now and go directly to “work on the project.” AFTER you have established yourself as a good worker, THEN consider meeting with people to explore further assignments.</p>

<p>If it is one thing I have learned in the last year, it’s that getting various opinions from people older than you and carefully considering them before making a decision is rather helpful :slight_smile: </p>

<p>@Consolation. I have already emailed my program director and he asked me to stop in to talk to him, so I’ll just go because he’s a chill guy and it’s not really a big deal. My mentor asked both of us to meet with them so he can go over everything, so I think I might as well just say something (before the group meets) like “Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be working on such a cool research topic. However, I was just wondering, if it would be somewhat possible to do some experiments/thinking individually along with working with (other girl). I think it would make me more responsible and force me to solve problems individually. That way I would get to see what it’s like working in a team and also by myself. Of course, if you prefer that we work together for everything, I totally understand and I’m sure I’ll learn a lot either way.”</p>

<p>I talked to my mom (also a researcher) about this and she said that if I say something politely like that he’ll probably listen and give me a chance to do a few things individually and even if that doesn’t fit with his plans/he doesn’t what that, I’m not sounding really ungrateful or rude.</p>

<p>Plus, I’d rather bring that up earlier than later because this professor will be on a well deserved vacation for the second half of the summer.</p>

<p>I agree with Consolation. Probably the best thing that you could be doing right now is working on the literature, rather than thinking of a way to persuade the PI to let you work by yourself. When you show up at the lab, work on the project. Ask questions of the grad students and post-docs. Observe what is going on around you. Go to the group meetings, if they are being held. If you want to take a different approach to something, ask about it before you do it. There may be reasons that have not been explained to you, for doing things the way they are done. Follow the safety procedures, and make sure that you are informed about them. While it’s nice to work on “your own” project, in many areas, even the post-docs are primarily working on the suggestions of the PI. There might be some areas of science where it is possible for a high-school student to design an original project that is meaningful. (My area of science is not one of them, however.) It would be a good idea to read the chapters in undergraduate textbooks that are related to what you are doing.</p>

<p>Focusing on winning a science fair competition is the wrong way to go about working in a “real” lab. If winning a science fair is your main goal, come up with a project that you can do in your garage.</p>

<p>@Quantmech. I have already started reading :smiley: and it’s really quite fascinating.
I’m not going to try persuading him beyond just briefly mentioning that I’d love to have a chance to do some stuff individually too. </p>

<p>Re: Science Fair. I’m not going to think about that for a while and just learn everything I can. Hopefully I can get some new ideas that haven’t been investigated before in my field of interest and persuade my PI to let me work on them during the school year. Right now though, I’m just going to learn as much as I can.</p>

<p>Do you have some key papers by the PI or others to work with? Are you familiar with the Web of Science? If so, you could look for more recent work that cites the key papers, and work outward from there. I think it is a good idea to work on learning as much as possible, as you suggest.</p>