<p>go to a non ivy.</p>
<p>Totally agree with you, TheBig5. I often see folks quote Ivy attendance by BS students on this forum. MANY BS kids - some of the brightest - choose to pass on the Ivy route and attend the little ivies and other LACs. It is amazing how few Americans are versed on quality academic institutions. They know the ivys and schools that dominate the sports rankings. </p>
<p>The Ivys do offer prestige. Better option for graduate school than undergrad, IMO.</p>
<p>Thanks for also posting the seven sisters schools. Great academics and beautiful schools.</p>
<p>^^ completely agree about the Little or hidden Ivys, but some of those (Amherst, Williams) are more difficult to get into then HYP. Spoken from empirical experience, a B student with great ECās, not recruited, no hooks, applying regular decision, from a BS is looking at the bottom half of the top 50 colleges on the USNews Lac list. To compare, from public school you would have to be an Bplus/Aminus student for those same colleges. This is not to say that one should base their colleges on the USNews, but for discussion purposes its an easy marker.</p>
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<p>Good grief. I donāt know why on earth you would say such a thing. That is the most demoralizingly wrong advice Iāve heard here in weeks.</p>
<p>This thread drives home the differences we parents have from one another. That the OP is apoplectic about her sonās B average at Andover and that she would actually consider pulling him from the school because she hopes a higher GPA at the local public school will improve his Ivy chances, well, that is one of the most unbalanced thoughts Iāve heard in a long while. I know that there is a percentage of parents whose sense of self would be undone if their child had to attend a GWU or a Colgate or an Occidental with the hoi polloi, but it makes me sick to see it in action.</p>
<p>To the OP, Andover is an end unto itself. It is one of the finest secondary institutions in the world. Donāt do this whole āIvy or bustā thing to yourself and definitely donāt do it to him. Iām sure he is a bright, capable human being (or he wouldnāt be at Andover) and will have a hugely successful life, especially if heās not made to feel that heās a failure.</p>
<p>After looking at the grade distribution chart from the link in MaterSās post, itās possible that a 4.0 average grade (not the same thing as a 4.0 GPA) places an Andover student very close to the bottom of his or her class. Although Andover says it doesnāt rank students, the school has provided the chart and any adcom can do the math. Iām not sure that an average grade of 4 at Andover is necessarily equivalent to a B average? On a scale of 1-6, a 4 is āgood.ā If the idea of class rank is considered, I can easily see the OPās reason for concern, especially when we learn from these posts that a 5-something average grade is no guarantee for top college admission. Thereās a big difference between a 5.2 average grade and a 4.0 average grade at Andover. It would be interesting to learn which colleges offer acceptances to the lowest 10-15 percent of students at Andover.</p>
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<p>The problem with this analysis is that we assume that grades and stats are the only criterian for college acceptance. Thatās old school thinking and not born out by the reality. MIT distributes their own bell curve to interviewers showing stats of incoming students which is why I felt confident in saying that returning to a school where āAāsā are more easily obtainable may or may not give the student an advantage.</p>
<p>And because there are other intangible elements to attending boarding school, and a lot of subjective assessments Adcoms make when looking at a file - there is good reason to believe that not all straight A students are accepted and not all B average students are turned down.</p>
<p>It depends more on the student and the schoolās understanding of the studentās academic rigor.</p>
<p>I say that because we (and I) also hear from a lot of Tād off parents when they focus on stats and then their students fail to get into the desired school. The result is often to blame a URM, or a kid with a hook, or a jock. When the reality is - that āBā student was a lot more interesting and had a lot more depth and took much harder courses than the āAā student who was declined.</p>
<p>The exception - if a student is slacking off and getting lower grades, they shouldnāt be in med school because they will get creamed there with a workload unlike anything they are doing in high school.</p>
<p>rebelangel-Observing parenting differences and pointing them out is one thing, but to sit on a moral high horse and cast aspersions is downright not nice. I have found some (albeit very little) outstanding advice posted on this site, and sent to me personally, advice that was frank and direct without feeling the need to put me down. If I knew all the answers to making my childās life perfect, I would not have asked for advice. And before I get another rant on how life is not perfect, I already know that. : ) Just so that you know, my child wakes up singing, hums while washing up, and smiles at will. It sounds like a happy kid to me.</p>
<p>āGood grief. I donāt know why on earth you would say such a thing. That is the most demoralizingly wrong advice Iāve heard here in weeks.ā ----
ā Why is this demoralizingly wrong advice? This is not advice, its an observation based on empirical study of students in boarding and day schools.
ā Why is this demoralizing? This is not demoralizing - the bottom half of the top 50 list includes top 25-50 schools in the Nation and includes such schools as Bucknell, Kenyon, University of Richmond, Lafayette, Dickinson, Trinity. Extremely nice schools. All very competitive. Look at their stats. Visit them for their vibe. Kids fall in love with them and enroll gladly. A lot of them on the hidden/little ivy list.
ā The occasional B student that gets admitted to an Ivy (which is what the OPās question is) is just that - occasional. One has to work with what one has. If the studentās grades dont improve significantly, then taking out all the āhooksā the student may have (and applying Early Decision can also be that hook), those are the possibilities.
ā To the OP - If your kid is happy, dont rock the boat. He may get better grades with getting older and more mature, or he may not reach his stride till college. He was accepted to a highly competitive school for HS - heās got what it takes.</p>
<p>A few other things that are pertinent to know - how rigorous was his local school? Did he get straight As there because you were on top of him to study and he had less distractions than dorm life provides or did he get straight As because it wasnāt a very rigorous program? Do many kids at his old school go to Ivies anyway? Did he score highly on his PSAT?</p>
<p>Many kids, boys especially, do better in their last 2 years than their first two years. Colleges like seeing that upward trajectory.</p>
<p>satellite - if itās a moral high horse to call out as wrong thinking the notion of yanking a kid out of Andover for Bās, all because it might lower his chances to be admitted to an Ivy, then Iām happy to sit on it, your sensitivity notwithstanding. Conversely, youāre free to accuse me of valuing and celebrating the life, aspirations and accomplishments of a happy B student at Andover who might very well end up at a Claremont McKenna, a Washington University, a UVA or the like. Maybe such thinking makes me a sort of āalso-ran,ā someone willing to settle for less than the best.</p>
<p>Do you honestly believe, Satellite, that the best educations and outcomes only follow the HADES-IVY track, at least where your son is concerned? If you do, part of the benefit of this site is to expose you to people who feel differently about their own bright, happy, engaged children.</p>
<p>Many people including those who already have very good local options worked so hard to get into top bs for the benefits of a better education. For the same reason, donāt people also want the best for their college education? Granted that Ivies are not the only good institutions, but still. If we are doing everything we can to get into HADES, shouldāt we try everything to get into a top college like an ivy, even by withdrawing from HADES if that makes sense for some?</p>
<p>^^My tone might be a little different, but I second Rebel. I thought it was pretty clear from the multiple threads here that kids & parents both understand that thereās a risk involved in making the boarding school choice, even for the ātier 1ā schools. They may actually negatively impact your DCās ability to āstand outā for college admissions. However, one has to weigh the value of that 4 year BS experience, and be willing to accept the outcome if itās not the ever-more-elite ladder toā¦? I donāt even know what. A 4 average at PA is perfectly fine, certainly there are kids there who struggle their entire time through to maintain an average like that. Your son will always have that network of friends, alums, the entire BS āworld,ā etc., and a 4 average wonāt stop him from getting into a school where he can continue to challenge himself and still wake up smiling and whistling. HOWEVER, if heās really bumming about his class standing, then that is an issue and maybe he needs someone to talk toā¦a BS alum, a family friend whoās a teacher?</p>
<p>What were his SSAT scores? If he scored in the upper '90s, his grades might represent underachievement. I would also not assume that he would be at the top of his public high school class. I know people often assume that on this forum, but the work ramps up at public high schools, too. </p>
<p>At this point in his high school career, I would opt to stay put at Andover. I also interview college applicants as an alumni. One of the most basic questions I ask is, āhave you attended the same school for all four years?ā Students do change schools, usually due to parentsā job changes. Changing from a more demanding environment to a less demanding environment is not a plus. </p>
<p>(An aside: If you were suddenly not able to pay tuition, then, of course, my statement above wouldnāt be true. Iām confident college admissions offices can discern the truth of that statement, as applicants usually submit family financial information to colleges. If I, the gullible alumni interviewer, write, ā____ changed from Andover to his local public high school, as his parents couldnāt afford the tuition,ā and the tax returns submitted to the college show that to be untrue, then, well, thatās not a good picture.)</p>
<p>Colleges will assume that a student who returned to his local public school either 1) didnāt like boarding, 2) had serious health issues, (including mental health issues, btw), 3) had disciplinary issues, 4) developed drug & alcohol issues, 5) didnāt make any friends, or 6) failed his courses. A change of school needs to be addressed in the college application. It would seem to me that changing schools only because his gpa was not stellar would inadvertently make his application less competitive, because it would raise the specter of all the other possible reasons for choosing to leave a school.</p>
<p>I donāt think that a possible Ivy League acceptance is worth giving up a diploma from Andover. I agree with TheBig5, in the larger world, over time, graduating from Andover is worth more than graduating from (insert Ivy League name).</p>
<p>A last thought. The boy you sent to Andover has matured in his time at the school. Is this change of schools your idea, or his idea? What are his goals now? Is he willing to sacrifice his ties to Andover to pursue the Ivy League?</p>
<p>Satellite, I think a lot of the advice below is baloney and realize that most of these people on this site are one way or other involved/employed by boarding schools. When you apply for jobs no body cares about what high school you go to (unless you apply for a McDonaldās job), they definitely want to know what college you went to. Saying Andover diploma is more valuable than ivy degree is plain hogwash. Tons of kids leave BS in grades 9, 10, 11 thatās why they fill those spots each year with new recruits. Otherwise BS would only be admitting students for the 9th grade. I think all these posters should post a DISCLAIMER that they donāt work for BS, are not recruiters for BS, or recruit students for the BS their kids attend to prop up the school finances. Now those of you want to jump up and down, I say chill. Satellite seems smart enough to see through smokescreens.</p>
<p>Pulsar - You are full of BS and know not of what you speak. Only a couple kids leave each year. They take 10th graders primarily because a lot of the feeder private schools go through 9th grade. They take a small number of new 11th graders who are honestly usually exceptional athletes and instant impact players or stellar in some other way. </p>
<p>Folks are not saying Andover is more important because it looks good on your resume. They are saying Andover is more important because BS is a transformative experience at a very crucial junction in life. You will learn and grow in ways that you wonāt experience in college. </p>
<p>Itās apparent you have used several user names on this site. What exactly is YOUR agenda? Have you been to BS? Have you watched a child go through the college process? If not, I suggest you stand aside and perhaps you will learn something from the experienced opinions expressed here. Satellitemom asked for opinions by posting her inquiry and that is exactly what she is getting - informed and experienced opinions. </p>
<p>PS. Schools like Exeter, Andover, etc. donāt need anyone to āprop upā their finances. Take a look at their endowments and the kids lining up to get in. Heck, if anything, some folks might hope that her son leaves Andover to open up a new spot on the waitlist, if I was going to adopt your cynical take on everything. Scurry off nowā¦</p>
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<p>Far more people graduate from the Ivy League than from Andover. To leave Andover for a (very small) chance at an Ivy League acceptance is odd, in my opinion. Itās leaving a bird in the hand for 8% of a bird in the bush.</p>
<p>Pulsar, the OP stated she was concerned about her sonās GPA in relation to Ivy League admissions. The Ivy league colleges do care how challenging your high school program was, and how much you challenged yourself. Changing from an elite boarding school to a less demanding school does not give you extra āchallengeā points. It might make the admissions team wonder if you could keep up in a competitive academic environment. </p>
<p>At any rate, the competition for admission to the Ivy league is fierce, and no one knows which students will be selected. Had the OPās son remained at his local high school, he might be at the top of his class. Returning to the high school, and then being at the top of his class, is not the same thing. </p>
<p>I donāt think that acceptance to the Ivy League is a goal worth sacrificing health, happiness, and friendship to achieve, but I am probably in the minority in holding that opinion.</p>
<p>dos, I already told you to chill.</p>
<p>Pulsar:</p>
<p>I am a parent of a prospective boarding school student who is currently waitlisted. I do not work for nor am I affiliated with any of these institutions, although during this process, Iāve thought how great it would be to be working for one if the benefits included tuition/tuition rebate :). I have worked for many years in business. I believe that it depends on what you plan on doing with your life which you may not know right now. If you are a corporate lawyer, plan on going to work on Wall Street, etc., I think it is a definite big plus for your career ā read the book Shamus Rahman Kahnās The Making of An Eliteā¦he is a professor at Columbia University. However, my opinion is based on people that I have known directly or indirectly through my years working. I firmly believe that boarding school connects you into a network of elites who tend to end up in positions of leadership in politics and business. However, I think the quality of the education is the most important aspect of the whole deal. That is why I have been drawn to this for my C.</p>
<p>I am concerned though if it such a negative thing to withdraw from an independent high school. It hadnāt occurred to me that this would be seen so negatively by colleges and that worries me. What if your kid was just too homesick at 14 ā that doesnāt mean he would be at 18!</p>
<p>Periwinkle, I would be very hesitant to tell people that a 4/6 GPA is good at any school. I donāt think it will be looked upon favorably by college adcoms in this competitive atmosphere. This is the reason why Andoverās college placement has so many non-ivy colleges listed including Stonehill college because that is where the 4/6 type GPA people might be going. If Andover already taught the OPās child that much more than his/her local HS, s/he will do much better when the OPās child returns to the local HS. Looks like most NE people where BS is engrained in the culture donāt seem to know how well students are doing in college placement from public high schools. I am totally convinced that you can go to a much better college, if not ivy, from being a top 10% at a PHS than with a 4/6 GPA at Andover. As far as BSs doing a fabulous job, how well can a BS teach say calculus that a PHS canāt? Are they going to invent new formulas that Isaac Newton didnāt?</p>