<p>BBA programs were never prestigious.
BBA programs are a joke.</p>
<p>And please don’t ever call a BBA a double major in Econ or Math. </p>
<p>@aluminum_boat: Yeah, that one got me too…I had to nip that idea in the bud (BBA and quantitative training my ass! That’s basically oxymoronic. it can’t remotely be compared to even the econ/math joint major in terms of quantitative training). </p>
<p>I mean seriously, I just came up with this: Why do you often hear UG b-school students (whether at Emory or other non-Wharton schools) never talking about the coursework at the school, but consider transferring when they find that the program is not prestigious enough for “x finance job in y city” because it isn’t a target? They know that the coursework is the same or interchangeably lame at similarly ranked institutions, such that they can simply transfer to a more branded program and get a better outcome with a similar amount (or lower in some cases, like if you went to ND) of work. They don’t care about what they are learning, just whether or not the program has enough brand or the correct location for it to be targeted by whatever company they want to work for. This was actually going on in one of those links you posted where the Emory student said: “I’m finding out that GBS is not as prestigious as I thought and I want to transfer to another, more prestigious BBA program”. Notice how they didn’t say that the coursework was weak or anything. They could care less. They wanted to sit around like a bump on the log, do the minimum to do well GPA wise, and then be picked up by some firm. They don’t value the education. I was kind of like…wow! What type of people do BBA programs get and also what does it say about the programs when people transfer exclusively because of supposed prestige differences like its nothing? I found that link just kind of sad. And the posters were all over it too, suggesting where to transfer and everything… No thanks, I’ll take ECAS any day and just optimize the experience rather than be around several people that may think like that…I feel such individuals did not belong at Emory in the first place. </p>
<p>The only AP credit that my son will have when he enters Emory will be AP Statistics. Is it possible for him (in terms of course load) to get a BBA and minor in Computer Infomatics (essentially six semester courses)?</p>
<p>@AsleepAtTheWheel: Yes…why would he not be able to? That’s extremely doable.</p>
<p>Hmm, this thread has given me a lot to think about. It’s strange to me that there would be such a disparity between the quality of the two degrees. If the BBA is less valuable than Econ + Quant, why do BBA programs nationwide enjoy such high popularity among students and recruiters? There has to be some advantage to the BBA other then just a lighter course load, right?</p>
<p>Also, on a side-note, this has been really informative. Thanks guys for all the great insight.</p>
<p>I think you’re still missing the point. Econ at a different school >> BBA at Emory. But BBA at Emory > Econ at Emory.</p>
<p>Ideally, you get the BBA and then also a degree that’s not Econ.
If you were attending a school that’s not Emory, then Econ would be plenty by itself. But Econ here is terrible.</p>
<p>BBA programs nationwide aren’t highly popular imo. Just a few of them. Their advantage is that you have recruiters at your doorstep. Which makes it relatively easy to get a job. </p>
<p>Wharton is sought after. No arguments there.
MIT, Berkeley, Michigan… Engineering/Math people from those schools are more sought after than the BBA students. But BBA students are wanted simply because they’re MIT, UCB, UMich students.
NYU is in NYC. So it gets lots of recruiting simply because it’s in their backyard. And I bet it’s a decent program (but their math program is elite).
UVA, I don’t know much about. But I hear it’s great. They have a very strong MBA program.</p>
<p>After that, it drops off hard.
Goizueta continues to do extremely well in ATL.</p>
<p>@aluminum_boat: Memo: I don’t think that article was lying when it said the national average for business major penetration is around 19% of an institution (that’s not an opinion, they are popular, but maybe for the wrong reasons). I just thank goodness that, at Emory, they only comprise around 10% or a little less. </p>
<p>Does MIT Sloan have an undegrad. entity? I’m didn’t know it did. UVA does well because it’s actually good. They are actually trying to provide a meaningful education. Many of the rest of us schools (including Wharton) just have smart students and branding pretty much. The programs themselves aren’t but so special. What the students do outside of the classroom (okay, and location. Let’s be honest, location probably plays a larger role than actual educational quality kind of like it does for other UG entities) in those programs is probably what attracts firms and causes placement to be high. In other words, nothing is new. “Smart” students (especially those in the correct location) are being trusted no matter their training. And fortunately, these top business schools send students who indeed perform well at their job so we don’t end up looking bad. However, I doubt their performance is necessarily enhanced by the BBA program. If it was a more demanding position (intellectually, not hours spent working), then training would likely have an effect, and in that case, I would want the person with more rigorous quantitative training, or great work experience/internships (that perhaps gave them that training) who majored in other fields. </p>
<p>No, I mean I realize that. But that also counts all the Business majors at places like University of North Dakota. They don’t get the same kinds of jobs as Business majors at Berkeley. I’m only counting the good schools and saying that the business people in there don’t comprise as high of a %. But I could still be wrong since I don’t have actual numbers.</p>
<p>Yea, MIT has an undergrad… Not surprised you haven’t heard of it. The best students at MIT don’t bother with it. Wharton probably does well with its preparation. I mean, there’s a reason it’s so ove-rrepresented when it comes to C level positions at firms.</p>
<p>@aluminum_boat: Wharton is really, really, really old, and its students, like the ones at WashU, UVA, and ND are smart (I mean, take multiple choice tests really well, which I’m sure continues in the business school. Although, at WashU and Wharton, I imagine more students are quantitatively very strong upon arrival. The students excellent at math are not confined to engineering and computational/physical sciences at these schools at least). It benefits from branding. I do hear that some of the first and 2nd year experiences are interesting (they have some legit capstone/project based learning)…I don’t think it’s really as great as UVA’s. But again, you don’t get recognition for having actual quality and rigor (not BBA’s or really anything outside of doctoral programs). If we did, I know some schools that Emory (the whole institution) should rank higher than and know other schools that should rank higher than us. Once the students are relatively smart, It’s all about a good time, reputation, and networking. The whole educationally quality bit is just fluff…</p>
<p>So if I’m understanding correctly, at Emory the best path to take would would be getting a BBA and a major or minor in either Applied Mathematics, Mathematics, Quantitive Social Science, or Economics and Mathematics for the quantitive skills. Is there any other path I’m not considering, other than substituting the BBA for an Econ degree?</p>
<p>Also, I understand that a business major from an elite school is going to get hired ahead of the guy from say Ohio State and paid more out of college, but where’s the cut off? Would an Emory grad with a BBA and some good quantitive background still be competitive for the same jobs as students from big-name programs like Mendoza, Stern, or Wharton, or does Goizueta not carry much weight outside of the south?</p>
<p>I guess…other alternatives would be to find another interest that Emory excels in (so many things!) and couple it with math, quant, or CS and get involved with things that would lead to you getting leadership and organizational development experiences (again, lots of that as well!), but you constantly revert back to this BBA thing, so just do that and major and minor with something on the side. And GBS holds some weight outside of the south, but it’s not like it will be targeted by NE firms. It’s in the south, they already have good ones near them that can fill their ranks. In this case, it’s a location thing more so than branding. </p>
<p>Upon arrival, please take a variety of courses and challenge yourself so as to give some BBA/non-econ. options a chance. There are multiple pathways to success (especially if you do well in quantitative and computational things). </p>
<p>Well, no lack of strongly-held and expressed opinions here! That’s a good thing.</p>
<p>@bernie12 – Thanks for your earlier response about adding a computer infomatics minor to a BBA. I asked because I had gotten an impression that it was hard to squeeze those six courses in between the core/distribution requirements, BBA pre-req’s, and BBA curriculum (without getting a head start using AP’s). I guess that’s not the case?</p>
<p>And to Bernie and others, any thoughts or impressions about the computer science dept/courses at Emory?</p>
<p>FWIW, even if my son does do the BBA at Emory I would be pretty PO’d if he didn’t take advantage of some of the fantastic non-businesses courses there. For me it’s sort of why one would go there.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>@AsleepAtTheWheel : Some of them are quite good apparently. It’s not a strong department, but the instruction isn’t particularly weak or anything like that, so taking CS courses is worthwhile (hell, I believe it should be a GER). </p>
<p>For what you are describing. You just start taking the courses in the freshman year. Don’t wait until your son is at the b-school to “kick it up”. Start working on it earlier if possible. The pre-business pre-reqs. aren’t that demanding, so taking at least 4/6 of the minor before junior year isn’t asking for all that much.</p>
<p>@AsleepAtTheWheel : Some of them are quite good apparently. It’s not a strong department, but the instruction isn’t particularly weak or anything like that, so taking CS courses is worthwhile (hell, I believe it should be a GER). </p>
<p>For what you are describing. You just start taking the courses in the freshman year. Don’t wait until your son is at the b-school to “kick it up”. Start working on it earlier if possible. The pre-business pre-reqs. aren’t that demanding, so taking at least 4/6 of the minor before junior year isn’t asking for all that much.</p>
<p>My stong opinions can be summed up as: anti-poor instruction, anti intentionally choosing courses that are not demanding or at very least intellectually stimulating when paying for 200k for a “top 20” education. If you want to do that, go and pay less somewhere else and get a 4.0. The outcome will be similar. </p>
<p>@bernie12 – again, thanks. Emory is the only full-pay school on the acceptance list, but right now it’s the leading contender. As you said, it would be pretty stupid to go there and just take the ‘gut’ courses (?are they still called that?) to buff up the GPA. My sister teaches at selective liberal arts college in New England (don’t want to name it, but think “Jumbos”), and one thing that makes her crazy is when incoming freshmen repeat a lot of courses that they’ve already taken (AP’s in high school) just so they can get a 4.0. And that does happen.</p>
<p>Another question: Could my son possibly get closed out of these courses in his first two years? Per the course descriptions on the website, many of the CS courses have limited sections with a max of 25 students. How does the registration process work in terms of getting into the courses that you’ll need? How are the registrants prioritized? Is there any preference if it’s your minor? Is it simply a non-issue?</p>
<p>Again, thanks.</p>
<p>Depends on the course. CS and Math are borderline impossible. Only exception is if you’re a graduating senior who needs it for their major. Classics and Spanish, otoh, are pretty easy. </p>
<p>Sign up time is a mixture of how many credits you have and a randomness algorithm iirc. </p>
<p>You should be able to get into CS170 and 171. Any higher, not as a sophomore. </p>
<p>Just plan it well. Courses shuffle all time time. So even if it’s closed initially, it might be open during add/drop/swap. </p>
<p>I think there’s a lot of (harsh) truth to @bernie12 ‘s views. I have close family in Finance, and from what I’m told, the guys that get ahead almost always (aside from the golden boys via wealthy families and Ivy-type pedigree) have superior analytical skills, as well as good communication and networking skills. You just won’t find the necessary quantitative rigour in most (if not all) BBA curricula to shore up those quant skills. One could argue that the communication and networking skills are improved more in a BBA, but I don’t think this is necessarily true. If you practice these things a bit in undergrad and find ways to improve them, you’ll be fine. The bottom line is that the absolute advantage that you’re getting on the quantitative side (from a quantitative major) trumps the theoretical advantage on the communication/soft skill side (from a BBA). Probably even at Penn and Berkeley.</p>
<p>I can’t speak to the rigour in the Econ dept at Emory. @aluminum_boat says it is terrible. That’s probably an exaggeration, with all due respect as he is closer to the dep’t than I am. Be that as it may, most employers very likely don’t care that much and don’t have time to grade academic departments at particular schools, so I think you’d be alright majoring in Econ from a reputational point of view (i.e. Emory overall is a great school). If the department lacks rigour, it’s another thing from the point of view of your educational experience, and what you want out of it. It sounds to me, however, that @Joel96 isn’t really considering another track other than Econ or BBA. That’s fine. He’s had a lot of opinions to take in here and I’m not sure if it’s wise for him to change direction entirely and start seriously thinking about, say, an Applied Math major with an Econ and English double minor. </p>
<p>If you can parlay a Math/Applied Math/CompSci/Physics major in there (without pulverizing your GPA) with either a BA Econ or BBA, I think you’d be happy with what you’re graduating with. Take a CompSci course or three, if not majoring in it. Learn how to write and speak and network. That’s essentially what you want out of an undergrad degree when your aim is to find your way into Finance. Personally, I’d lean toward the BA Econ over the BBA, simply because I feel that BBA curricula (generally) tend to not get into sufficient depth to provide a student with top quality analytical skills. Econ does a better job of that. Probably even at Emory, even though @aluminum_boat doesn’t think so, but I’m sure he can elaborate on that.</p>
<p>By the way, the reason that you see a lot of Econ grads in gov’t, Joel, is because many of those jobs center on Policy, which Econ grads typically have a handle on. This doesn’t mean that Econ grads are somehow steered toward gov’t. If anything, it gives them more options. Also, yes, there are plenty of finance jobs in banking and wealth man’t outside of the main hubs. You shouldn’t be afraid to go wherever you have to upon graduation, however, to get the requisite experience so that you can move closer to where you really want to be, one day.</p>
<p>Thanks. When you include Math, I do have to assume that they run enough sections of Math 111 for freshmen to make it do-able, yes?</p>
<p>@AsleepAtTheWheel : There are boatloads of math 111 and even 112 sections (there are also like 4 sections of math 112-Z. I think it has also increased because math 119, b-calc, disappeared). These, like those at many schools between 15 and 20 or so are taught by grad. students and post-docs and some are better at teaching than others I believe, so be careful…You don’t want weak instruction setting your son back. He isn’t pre-med where most of them can just take their 1-2 math courses, steal the A from the worst instructors, and run with it. He may have to actually use the skills he was supposed to gain from his math classes.</p>
<p>And yes, too many students forfeit AP credit for the “easy A”. I particularly love the silly ones that do it for Emory’s general chemistry sequence. Hardly none of them even make an A- or B+ (and to make that, it’s usually the ones in the easiest sections). I feel that students who do things like that with math and science courses are weakening themselves all the while playing with fire in some cases (with chem, biology, and physics. Not so much math, most of those intro. courses actually are simple). They learn redundant and boring material while denting their GPA’s. Sounds like a great combo huh?</p>
<p>I feel students should have reservations about that with chem and biology just as Tech students have reservations about re-taking the intro. physics or math sequence. Seriously, why would you take courses with anywhere between a 2.3-2.8 average hoping for an easy A. That course GPA (between C+ and B-, and in the case of biology, a solid B) indicates to me that instructors know that many students have a large exposure to the material and are even aiming to challenge those folks. Often the advanced or intermediate courses that AP students could place into have softer curves and more components to pad exam and quiz scores, yet students still refuse or are afraid. The naivete and lack of contemplation is beyond belief.</p>
<p>This BBA+QSS thread is timely and highly relevant to DD’s situation. She is a freshman planning to enter BBA (ISOM and possibly finance), and also very interested in pursuing the new QSS major, as she loves stats.</p>
<p>First of all, Emory BBA does not allow minor in CAS, only major.
She has figured out it is possible to finish the minimal requirement of BBA and QSS in time. However, this approach might lack depth in both, unless taking 7+ classes as upperclassman is no big deal. She will have finished BBA pre-req and almost all GERs by the end of freshman year (even did orgo and bio). She plans to devote sophomore year to the 4 basic QSS classes, CS171/172 (finger crosses she can get into these classes next week during registration), a few BUS classes, plus whichever QSS major she decides to do. That’s the hard part for her. She does not want to do Econ as she thinks that overlaps with BBA curriculum too much. So far she has taken multiple courses in phil, psyc, but still wants to sample poli sci, even sociology and religion, before deciding on the QSS major direction (minimal 6 courses required). This is how the depth will suffer.
I wish Emory could make these new QTM classes associate with something like BBA or even biology, rather than only social sciences. Most biology and NBB majors will benefit from these immensely. Of course they do not fit the QSS definition.
The question is whether it is worthwhile to pursue the QSS major (in addition to BBA), or just take as many QTM and CS classes she can. The problem with the latter is that there is nothing to show the huge effort, except on the transcript. A minor would be nice.
I sometimes even question why she wants to do BBA, as she is more intellectual (and perhaps less entrepreneurial) than average BBA student. One reason is the weakness of Emory Econ. The other is she thinks the BBA communication and networking will be valuable for her. The BBA placement stat must also be a factor. </p>