<p>halfokum, totally agree, and I should have been clearer. Other posters had asked about Philly and NYC schools. Someone else had brought up Arcadia, and I also brought up DeSales, which is easier to get into. Also, in the link of someone whose son didn’t get in anywhere, it was pointed out that a high level student might look at top schools that <em>are not</em> well known for your area of studies. For instance, instead of a top applicant in theatre looking only at Yale, Brown and NU for a BA, they might also look at, say, U Penn, to give one example, since it is not particularly known for its theatre program, but you might be able to shine. There are several more schools in the Philly and NYC area that are like this. My brain is frozen right now, but I know there are!</p>
<p>But msmommy, your son is mistaken if he thinks BAs are studying ‘about’ theatre. I realize he wants what he wants, but he is operating from a false impression. That would be like not applying to a BFA program because someone he admired told him it wasn’t well respected in the work world. This isn’t true–but I’m giving you another example of false information. I mean, obviously, if he wants a BFA, great. But if he thinks a BA is a poor second cousin, a ‘safety’ he would just put in to make others happy but not studying what he really wants, that would be a bad thing for him. If he wants to be happy, he could conceivably be happy with a BA as well as a BFA if it was the right program.</p>
<p>and jumping back in, connections knows more about this field than me so take her advice over mine on BFA vs. BA. I do know there are bA programs with lots of acting too. I was the one who asked about Philly and NYC schools BTW so thanks for your advice there too connections. My kid has already applied to Temple and your thoughts on other schools confirmed our research other than DeSales which I thought was closer to Allentown than Philly.</p>
<p>Gooood morning, everyone. connections, yes…you have put into words what the issue seems to be. He does not think a BA is not as GOOD as a BFA. He just absolutely has in his head that it is “not for him”. For instance, I was looking at Naviance yesterday, and noticed that he has some other schools listed as schools he will be applying to. Yale, for instance. So we had a quick conversation last night at 9 pm when he finally got home from rehearsal, and he said that when I asked him for his list of schools this weekend, he only gave me the ones that had auditions. Because those are the only ones he is really interested in. He said he only added Yale because his college counselor insisted he should have at least one Ivy on his list. And I have read plenty about the Yale undergrad theatre degree and I can see how he has formed his opinion. It is not for everyone. He thinks it is not for him. So I am not saying that he is RIGHT, I am saying that he is stubborn. Of course BA’s are right or even better for millions of people. He has in his head that a BFA is a “better fit” for him and what he wants. I would even say that I would “prefer” that he get a BA. But right now (and maybe never again) will he accept what I prefer as what is “right” for him. And it certainly has nothing to do with not being “well-respected” once he is out…it has everything to do with how he thinks he wants to spend his next four years. And yes, he may be operating under a misguided notion, but it is not likely to change drastically at this point.</p>
<p>I mean, I wrote a post earlier about his ex-girlfriend’s experiences at Loyola Marymount. That girl is acting ALL THE TIME…as a sophomore…in a BA program. He stays in touch with her. He knows that. He saw two of her Freshman productions. It hasn’t changed his mind. He was an extra in a movie filmed by a group of alumni from USC last Christmas, most of whom graduated with a BA of some sort. He can see that they are working in the industry and thriving. It has not changed his mind.</p>
<p>So when I showed him what I found about Fordham, he was happy enough to add it to his list because it is a BA program, but it said that it is “conservatory-style”. But still auditioned. So we haven’t gained a “safety”, but I persuaded him to stretch a bit.</p>
<p>Everyone’s advice here has been invaluable in helping me continue the search for an unauditioned BA (or BFA) program that would be a good safety and a good fit. You’ve given me many great ideas. But we’re dealing with a “personality quirk” that sometimes does not serve my son well. On the other hand, he is his “own person” and has been since he was very young. And when I look at who he is and what he has achieved already, I realize that maybe it HAS served him well.</p>
<p>Keep me in mind if a “fit” pop ups. Otherwise, we don’t need to keep beating this horse. I really appreciate all the clarification and assistance. It’s amazing to me that a few days of your assistance has been much more helpful than months of following what I thought were the guidelines for the process. </p>
<p>We will all come out the other side, and I’m getting really excited to see where everyone ends up. Have an awesome day, everyone.</p>
<p>MsMommy, you and your son are smart to be studying curricula. Some theatre BAs are highly performance-oriented, others not at all.</p>
<p>If a kid is willing to take a gap year, as yours its, it is perfectly reasonable to have a fairly short list that consists of auditioned BFAs only. My son was in the BFA-or-gap camp and only applied to six programs. Fortunately he was accepted at three of them…but you never know.</p>
<p>msmommy, I hear you on stubborn. Mine can be too, in different ways. He took the ACT recently but only reluctantly did so with agreement he not be required to prep. i am thinking Temple makes a lot of sense for your son to apply to just in case. He should have no trouble being admitted, and there is no audition for the BA to begin with. At some point, they do have to audition for upper level classes but impression i have is that kids with an acting background, esp boys, should be ok when that time comes. And the boys only have a leg up cause the competition is less. I am not aware of any female who did not pass this audition either so I don’t think it’s anywhere as near as intense as what he is about to be up against. and temple is in philly, which is fun. Although the year off, if it comes to that, makes sense for him too. Sometimes when we are headstrong, lessons like having to take a year off when there were tons of options available, can be a good wakeup call. I also wanted to add the more I think about it, the USC BA may*** be a safety for ur kid. And by may is that in my opinion, no one should treat it as a safety. But given his scores, school background, AP classes, acting background and community service, I think he has good shot of getting into USC. His biggest risk is USC figuring out he considers them a safety. They would probably not appreciate it all and I think their charts show they turn away some high stats kids/</p>
<p>I’d say if his heart and mind is drawn to conservatory, embrace it and go for it. Westminster sounds like a good safety. I wouldn’t waste time on Yale and other Reach BA’s. Those admission committees want to see heart-felt and well crafted essays and if he doesn’t want to attend, that’s hard to pull off. Besides, he needs the time to prepare for auditions. But, I do concur with Connections on BA programs. In our travels, my daughter was pretty much blown away by what’s happening in the theatre departments at Brown University, Williams College and some others. </p>
<p>If you haven’t seen it here is a good article on the rigors of the BFA audition season. </p>
<p>The more I hear about MsMommy’s son the more I admire him.</p>
<p>When I was that age I personally certainly didn’t have such a clear idea of what educational experience would be best for me, and spent a few years flailing about at the wrong thing.</p>
<p>Now that I know more about MsMommy’s son’s resume, training & experience, I feel as though he is the sort of person who really should get into one of these very competitive programs he is looking at. But of course what “should” happen doesn’t always happen in the real world.</p>
<p>I’m glad he is applying to many competitive programs, not just one or two. Yes, that does indeed “improve his odds”. And the fact that he is a boy also greatly improves his odds. I really believe one day he will get into one of these competitive programs. So if by some fluke he doesn’t get admitted to any of the schools he applied to this year, it’s really NOT the end of the world. They aren’t going anywhere. He should get a “survival” job for a year–if he plans to make a career as an actor this certainly won’t be his last survival job, so it can be a good idea to get used to it now. Use the year to polish up his audition skills. Then go and re-apply and re-audition to all of these schools. And I am sure he will be admitted somewhere.</p>
<p>Thanks,KEVP! I admire him, too! He’s a pretty cool kid. Makes it tough to argue with him, even when I think (know) I’m right!</p>
<p>arwarw, thanks for those links. I had seen the Yale article, but not the audition one. Got forwarded to S immediately and became fodder for breakfast conversation.</p>
<p>And I should have said, “You no longer have to beat this dead horse unless you WANT to”. Of course, it is interesting to me, too. And you are all so amazingly generous with your time, knowledge and experience that it blows me away.</p>
<p>I think the thing is to be sure he has choices in April. 6 months is a long time in the life of an 18 year old and minds can change. I had a BFA or bust kid who only applied to BA’s to appease me. Mid-April, with options in hand, she suddenly was ready to actually think about a BA. We looked at the options, reconsidered everything carefully…and then-- happily off to a conservatory BFA and in love with it. But I am so glad she had both options for calm consideration. </p>
<p>I also love Connections’ post on BAs-- beside some great performance oriented ones like Northwestern and Fordham, there are schools with small programs where students get lots of performance opportunities. Had D gone that way I’d have preferred she do that than go to one of the more often-suggested programs where tons of theater majors are competing for limited class and performance opportunities.</p>
<p>Since you’re indulging me here, I will share an anecdote about my S. Last year he took an Honors English class from one of the founders of his school. This gentleman has an AM in American Lit from Stanford and a PHD in Eng. and Am. Lit from NYU. Besides founding the school and teaching one class a year, he also runs a highly successful non-profit educational venture. I spent each of three parent/teacher conferences listening to him tell me that I am not doing my job as a parent because I have not persuaded David to go into something other than acting. And he always said, “Not because he’s not a brilliant actor…he is…I just think he has so much more to offer the world.” And he also wrote some version of this on every progress report. And S said that at least once a week…in class…in front of his peers…he would make the same remarks. Didn’t sway son one iota. As a matter of fact, he may be firmer in his resolve because of it. Needless to say, we didn’t choose that professor to write his LOR. LOL!</p>
<p>Msmommy, I have a comment on that too. I have a friend, who is very intelligent, and when I started sharing my son’s test scores with him(we had no clue til we got the PSAT back of where our kid stood nationally and were in a bit of shock to learn he’s as high as he is), my friend has been encouraging my husband and I to carefully guide our son due to the potential our kid has. When I asked my friend about my kid going into acting(he has known that’s been my kid’s heart for years), he thought about it a minute and then said s “who knows, ur kid could be the next Charleton Heston”. He did not mean it sarcastically or even in reality cause he has never seen my kid act. But it was his way of supporting the young one to go after his dreams even though others may think my kid should be an engineer or a doctor.</p>
<p>MS mommy your S sounds a bit like my D. She knows without a doubt that she wants a BFA because she wants to be working at acting all the time and doesn’t want the interruptions of other classes. She said during her summer programs she found the scheduled days off very disruptive to her training. Your S sounds like he knows how he wants the training to go too.
That being said, I’m gathering you are worried because he doesn’t seem totally realistic about admittance options. He may be doing a bit of a protective show off-layer for you, because he’s afraid to admit he’s a little worried too. Like a defense mechanism. or thinking about the odds does nothing to help him so he would rather just not think of it.
It sounds like though at this point you have done what you can to present all sides of this issue to him. Maybe now you just let it go… the information you have shared is in his head somewhere and perhaps after a couple more weeks he might decide on his own to add another safety. Maybe something will shake the confidence a little. Or maybe he will just continue on his path. But this process is so difficult and if you are getting to a point where it’s overwhelming everything, you can just say, OK, that’s enough from me! </p>
<p>Gwen Fairfax makes a good point too - things can change over 6 months, a lot. </p>
<p>My D has been pretty reasonable about having a couple of safeties. She applied and did what she was supposed to do without arguing because I said it needs to be done…but she has said “I really can’t see myself going here.” I just keep saying “Well, let’s just wait and see what happens. It is hard to predict exactly how you will feel in April 2014. This could end up being an option you like.”</p>
<p>We are in the middle of tech week, with the play this weekend, and auditions for spring musical next week, and she has an essay for the big scholarship at BU due by Nov. 30th, and she has gotten nowhere on it, so I feel your frustration though on letting the kid take the lead. She’s known about the essay for 3-4 weeks and still waits until now. Argh!</p>
<p>Part #1
First of all, I am a student (not a parent!). It seems that whilst many students read CC (most of my friends do) few post their opinion. So that is what I have decided to do…</p>
<p>arwarw, thank you SO much for posting those two articles. I had never seen either of them before and both were extremely helpful to me.</p>
<p>I have come to the conclusion that my dream school would be somewhere inbetween a BA and a BFA (i.e. a conservatory style BA - such as Fordham - or a BFA with time for academic pursuits - such as NYU). This is not due to indecisiveness, but because:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Whilst I do think that it is important for an actress to be culturally aware and that the history of theatre and theatre in literature build a solid foundation – I think that it is of equal importance for a program to prepare its students for work in the industry. You CANNOT become a successful actor solely by studying other successful actors/appearing in plays. Yes, acting is an art and it is an art that should be developed and refined and explored but acting is also a business. And it is a ruthless business.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not one of those actors that want to do academics at college as a fall back in case I don’t make it. I would rather be poor and still living with my parents at 25 but acting, doing the one thing I love most in the world. I want to study academics purely because I also like academia. Not because I want to make a career out of it, but because I enjoy it.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Ultimately I believe that you can only truly be successful at something if you have a passion for it and put everything you have toward achieving your goals. Sure, you can major in economics and get a job as an accountant because you are scared you won’t be a successful actress – but at the end of the day the person who wanted to be an accountant in the first place will be a more successful accountant because of their determination. </p>
<p>If you love two things, or at least like a second, then I can understand wanting to minor in law with the hope of becoming a lawyer if you are not successful as an actor. But I would strongly, strongly advise against doing the above.</p>
<p>(If anyone has any additional schools that are performance heavy BAs or BFAs with less time spent in the studio than is typical than I would be extremely grateful for your suggestions).</p>
<p>Part #2
I also agree that a teenager’s opinion can change a lot in the space of a short time:
Just 3 months ago I was considering a degree in screen acting (for example the program at Chapman) and nothing else. I was so certain that I snapped at my Mom when she suggested that I audition for a community theatre play just to “see what it’s like, you never know”. I had come to this conclusion prematurely and somewhat naively – I’m homeschooled so my experience in school productions had been limited to 8th and 9th grade ‘Annie’ and ‘42nd street’, in which I was cast in small roles due to my being tone deaf and unable to sing. This put me off theatre altogether and I turned instead to screen acting, taking classes at a local high school. I was more successful in this endeavor and was recently cast in a horror movie. </p>
<p>My opinion completely changed in September. I wanted to audition for a well-known part time program at a college for my senior year and had sadly missed the deadline for the screen-acting course. Instead I auditioned for a theatre course at a different college and “fell in love and haven’t looked back since” (colloquial but true). Just last week, my teacher was telling the class how it is much easier for an actress trained in theater to translate these skills when behind a camera than it is for an actress trained in film to appear on stage. She used George Clooney as an example and explained how a screen actor is used to just doing a scene, redoing it until it’s perfect and then they’re done and move on. But when it comes to performing on stage they do not have an ability to project their voice, nor do they have the stamina required to perform night after night as the same character, upholding an equal level of passion. They just don’t have the same level of focus and find it harder to work in an ensemble (-please be aware this is a generalized opinion, I do not intend to offend anyone).</p>
<p>In conclusion, I’m not applying to any of the schools that were on my list in August. I would strongly advise everyone to keep their options open – if you’re applying exclusively to BA programs, apply for at least one BFA. If you’re applying exclusively to East Coast schools, apply for at least one in a different area. I’m not saying that you will not still only want to attend a college in e.g. Arizona in April, but maybe just maybe you might want to go somewhere warmer such as California.</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post! It’s essay writing season and I seem to turn everything into an essay. Just this morning I was inboxing my friend on Facebook and signed off as ‘Kind Regards’ as I had been sending emails to colleges. It did make us both laugh though Also, I only had time to write this because I am in hospital waiting to have an operation – not because homeschooled students don’t have any work to do…</p>
<p>dBPMw99U, thanks so much for chiming in with worthwhile info from another perspective. This seems to be a group interested in exploring all options/opinions. I will certainly share with my son. Good luck with your surgery. Enjoy your “time off” ;)</p>
<p>dBpm…My D had a similar experience as you in that she is not a singer and the only theater options for young people were musical so she looked into screen acting. She got a couple of professional jobs and hated the start, stop, endless hours of waiting that she experienced on set. Ir solidified her desire to be a stage actor. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>dBPMw99U, thanks for your thoughtful post. It’s great hearing from a student. I wonder how many others, like you, have been drawn to film acting because musical theatre was not for them and MT was all they had ever been exposed to, theatre-wise. </p>
<p>It’s wonderful that you were able to make the discovery you did. Best of luck to you…keep us posted!</p>
Also, I only had time to write this because I am in hospital waiting to have an operation – not because homeschooled students don’t have any work to do…</p>