Bad Reactions to W&L ?

Parents Forum
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<p>I was familiar with W&L some time ago (late 80s), so things may have changed, but back then conservatism did not mean religious evangelism. I knew a lot of conservative, preppy students there, but I never knew a one of them to proselytize or, frankly, even attend church. Obviously some do (and did--I guess I just wasn't hanging with people who wanted to get up early on Sunday) but I don't think that's the kind of conservatism that is had a rep for then.</p>

<p>I'm a moderate liberal married to a foaming-at-the-mouth liberal and I'd be thrilled if my son got interested in W & L.</p>

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<p>A lot of students don't qualify for FA simply because the school is so inexpensive. I think that, a few years ago, it was $25,000, all in. Um... are you really comparing that with a school that is $40,000 all in? </p>

<p>I absolutely LOVE how scared some people are of those who go to church. Tolerance and diversity apparently don't extend to those who spend Sunday mornings in a pew.</p>

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<p>UNwritten - you just have to go visit.</p>

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<p>"I absolutely LOVE how scared some people are of those who go to church. Tolerance and diversity apparently don't extend to those who spend Sunday mornings in a pew."</p>

<p>yeah... as I mentioned, I go to a Catholic school run by nuns so I'm going to assume you didn't mean me by that statement?</p>

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<p>My S is a member of the Class of 2010 from Md. He visited 5 times over two years. Stayed on campus with different students each time. He saw and heard no "pushing" of religion, just students who tended to be raised in homes of faith, whatever that faith might be. He saw that W&L would be a "good fit" on paper, and these visits more than confirmed that. </p>

<p>The fact that students, faculty, alumni and the institution itself place such a high value on living in a community of common values is reflected in the legendary Honor System, which was a stronger attraction for him once he saw the daily and long-term difference it makes to W&L students. </p>

<p>He has "met" so many classmates from all over the US through facebook already, incl one from NJ with whom he talks every day. Some seem conservative, others liberal. All are willing to talk about it, and with each other. He is "livin the dream," as he likes to say. </p>

<p>Re the "southern" negativity. I remember going to my first class at Wake Forest as a freshman, having grown up in Southern California and DC metro Maryland. When the Bio prof started talking, I thought, "How can this man be so amazing and smart with such a thick southern accent?" That's how little time it took me to realize how ignorant I had been. </p>

<p>Why is the negative stereotyping you have heard, about an entire population of diverse people and places, accepted by people who profess to have the intelligence and tolerance they blithely presume "southerners" do not have?</p>

<p>Is denigrating the intelligence, tolerance, and culture of people who live in the south the last socially acceptable prejudice? </p>

<p>Good for you, unwritten. You did not simply accept comments from people who assume and accuse instead of investigate and enlighten! We are all looking forward to hearing about your visit to Lexington this fall.</p>

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<p>unwritten & usquette, you appear offended that prospective students might, in their quest for "fit," want to ask whether colleges offer a strong Christian presence. Why? CC is one of many sources for assessing academic and social climate--the "facts" are easy to research, but colleges typically don't advertise students' degree of religious fervor. For students "raised in homes of faith," best fit is likely different from those from homes who do not share that particular bias. Being exposed to a variety of beliefs and ideas is part of education, but I doubt that a devout Christian would be any more comfortable living for four years at, say, Reed College, than an atheist at, say, Washington & Lee.</p>

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<p>"unwritten & usquette, you appear offended that prospective students might, in their quest for "fit," want to ask whether colleges offer a strong Christian presence. "</p>

<p>hmm your comment is kind of confusing me... you think i'm offended that people would ask whether there is a Christian presense on campus? i thought that was what i was doing: asking how strong of a religious presence there was</p>

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<p>oops ... please retract the addressees (not the message) ... hubris here, thinking I could multitask and hold everything in my head ... totally confused myself ... sorry, sorry</p>

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<p>oh okay no problem lol i thought i was reading it wrong</p>

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<p>
[quote]
For students "raised in homes of faith," best fit is likely different from those from homes who do not share that particular bias. Being exposed to a variety of beliefs and ideas is part of education, but I doubt that a devout Christian would be any more comfortable living for four years at, say, Reed College, than an atheist at, say, Washington & Lee.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think the problem here is that outside of the South, people equate any church attendance, except Mass, and any Christian belief with evangelical Christianity. My D who is at Dartmouth and I were discussing this very topic yesterday. Here people identify themselves as Baptist or Methodist or Church of Christ or Church of God or Pentacostal or Freewill or hardshell, etc, etc and each of these flavors of Christian belief is a little different, and immediately conjures up a social picture of the believer for a Southerner. What people outside the South envision when the hear "Christian" is what we Southerners associate with "Pentecostal" or "Assembly of God"(but less so) or evangelical. Being raised in a "home of faith" is close to the norm here, but selecting a college based on "religious bias" is not - if it was, Alabama and Auburn and LSU and UGa would be closed.
An atheist could feel just at home at W&L as most any college in the US. The average Southern W&L student will identify themselves as Episcopalian or Methodist or Baptist, but will not be a "Bible-thumper". The average student will be conservative, but probably not overly bigoted. It is hard to explain the influence that church-going has on Southern culture without ever having experienced it - my best analogy is Judaism in the rest of America - most Jews in America self-identify as such, but they may vary widely in their religiosity and follow one of several different branches of Judaism. </p>

<p>Unfortunately there is still some truth to Esquette's negative stereotyping - people genuinely think we are all ignorant rednecks, and can't imagine living in the South - that's OK, we have plenty of people, thanks.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"An atheist could feel just at home at W&L as most any college in the US."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wow. Is that true? Do others agree?</p>

<p>I'm thinking of a story recently related to me by a Reed student. A small group of Christian missionaries (sorry, I don't remember the flavor) visited the Reed campus to bring their message to the students. The kids pretty much ignored them. Then a week later the missionaries returned, and again the kids ignored them. The third visit, the kids had had enough and were ready for them. They stripped, painted themselves blue, and danced around the church ladies chanting pagan invectives. They were not visited the next week.</p>

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<p>We visited W&L last summer in our southern college tour. They wanted my daughter badly for three reasons: 1) she is a kick a** defender/midfielder 2) a cellist 3) from the northwest. She didn’t feel as right at W&L as she did at other southern schools a little lower on Mini’s Preppy Index. No slam on W&L every kid should go where they most comfortable.</p>

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<p>Unwritten, no, not referring to you. I was referring to the people who will trash Southern schools because, non-gendered possible diety forbid, there are Christians there.</p>

<p>All I'm saying is that W&L, Wake, Ole Miss, Richmond, etc are not Bob Jones or Liberty. </p>

<p>As for what CAngel said about religion in the South - yeah, you have to see it to understand it. It's a lot more social than it is up North - church isn't just where you go because you want to worship; it's part of your network of friends.</p>

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<p>Esquette- I know exactly what you are talking about- I encounter this attitude about southerners every day, even from close friends. It is funny, when they show that, they seem as igonorant as the southern people they presume to know! My son will be attending Wake (in 10 days!) and I know he is going without any predjudice. I have complete faith he will have a great experience.</p>

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<p>Another thing, if someone wants to "Bible-thump", as long as they are not hurting anyone or pushing their ideas on others, what is the problem? If "Liberals" are so tolerant, SHOW IT with actions, not talk.!!!</p>

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<p>To sum it up -- yes, most students at W&L seem to be "believers," but no, contrary to some reports, they aren't really interested in making it the focal point of their college experience or even persuading others to adopt their beliefs. Prob like a lot of college campuses around the country!</p>

<p>One thing we found very interesting and surprising is that one of the USNWR admissions factors (we used the online edition) is "religious commitment" or something to that effect. Schools report whether this factor is (1)not considered (2) considered (3) important or (4) very important. Of course, public schools all say religion is not considered. You will be quite surprised at the variation among other schools though. For example, at Wake, this factor is "important," whereas at W&L it is "not considered." That may tell you something about each student body, as it has been selected by the school. </p>

<p>As for the southern prejudice, I have seen the light for lo these 30+ years since I arrived at Wake. Best evidence of that may be my S, I suppose. He refused to apply anywhere north of Virginia!</p>

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<p>njmom -- he'll have a ball, no doubt! Good job raising a geographically enlightened child :) And, like students from W&L, Richmond, UVa, etc, most likely he will be wearing shorts and flip flops for many more of his college days than his friends above the Mason-Dixon line!</p>

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<p>There's a very informative article in today's Washington Post Magazine regarding W&L's Shepherd Program for the Interdisciplinary Study of Poverty and Human Capability. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080100825.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080100825.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>If the link doesn't work (and why I don't know....) the article is called Class Questions by Brigid Schulte and was published on 08/06/2006.</p>

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<p>Hey unwritten! First, good luck with your college search. I see you're from NJ, so I have a couple of questions.</p>

<p>How do you feel when people who do not know NJ assume that it all looks like the turnpike? (We live in Far Hills. It most definitely does not resemble the turnpike)</p>

<p>Or that all of us here in NJ talk like the characters in the Sopranos? Or that we all have big hair and fake nails and walk around saying things like "fuhgeddaboutit". Well, I do say that a lot, come to think of it...</p>

<p>We're fairly liberal. My daughter will be going to W&L in a couple of weeks (yikes!). As far as religion goes, she will definitely be in the minority, and she's fine with it. She's looking forward to her Volunteer Venture pre-orientation program which deals with race relations and the Shepherd Program. She found the students at the school to be extremely friendly when she visited, and that cemented her desire to attend the school. Also, one of our very good friends is an alum. He's no bible thumper, that's for sure. One thing about W&L, the alums we have run across have nothing but great things to say about the school and their time there.</p>

<p>I was glad my daughter was interested in attending a school in a different area than the north. I felt that it would be an enriching experience.</p>

<p>Again, good luck to you!</p>