<p>Unwritten - the best advice - go by your own gut feeling of W&L - consider first hand knowledge as the best thermometer - and best of luck - be open minded and you will find your answers.</p>
<p>Unwritten, there was a thread on CC a while back about Southern schools and negative stereotypes. You should look it up. W&L was specifically mentioned and there were both negative and positive comments about the school, particularly the social atmosphere.</p>
<p>My son was offered a great scholarship to attend W&L but opted not to. On paper he loved the school, but when he visited overnight he didn't feel quite comfortable. His opinion was similar to that expressed here by kamala: "Unfortunately it was hard to find a healthy midway between those two groups." The lack of ethnic diversity didn't bother him (though the Confederate flags hanging in some dorm rooms was a little hard to swallow coming from the North and being darker-skinned), but the perceived lack of social diversity did concern him. Judging by the kids he met over the 3 days, he felt that there were two extremes and he really didn't identify with either.</p>
<p>There's no doubt it's an excellent school and the alumni seem very happy with their experience. It's just a matter of fit.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Confederate flags hanging in some dorm rooms was a little hard to swallow
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That always bothered me too. I'm not sure it's deeply meaningful to the kids who fly them now -- just loyalty to their region I suppose -- but when I lived in Richmond (some years ago) the people displaying Confederate flags were usually White people who liked to shout "the South shall rise again" while suggesting violence to Blacks.</p>
<p>A Southern flag is deeply meaningful to us...</p>
<p>Not as a sign of discrimination but as a symbol of our proud heritage and respective statehoods.</p>
<p>Right, celloguy. We tried not to assume the flags meant more than simple affection for the South. Still, in this age of PC, it was hard to imagine that a student bright enough to attend W&L would be completely unaware that for blacks that flag is a symbol of slavery and oppression. So it was difficult to totally overlook that issue; as a mother I was concerned about the social atmosphere there for minorities.</p>
<p>dobiesk8r- wow far hills! what a coincidence... i live in a town right next to that that starts with a 'b', ends in an 'e', and shares the same HS as far hills
lol in the interest of a tad bit of anonymity i won't specifically mention the name. but you are correct, our area certainly does not resemble the turnpike
but anyway: I haven't met anyone yet that actually thought those stereotypes of NJ were true but I'm sure if I had to hear them over and over again they'd get annoying. We have a house on the jersey shore though and after seeing some of the characters you get down there I can't say some of those NJ stereotypes aren't based on a bit of truth lol</p>
<p>Considering that the North had more than its fair share of slaves until it became sufficiently industrial so as to have little need of forced labour, why say that the antebellum South is inextricably intertwined with slavery? </p>
<p>As for the South rising again... haven't y'all been paying attention during the last 20 years of Presidential elections? ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Considering that the North had more than its fair share of slaves until it became sufficiently industrial so as to have little need of forced labour, why say that the antebellum South is inextricably intertwined with slavery?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Can't argue with that. But a quick internet search on the Confederate flag reveals a raging controversy still going on as to just what it does symbolize. Southern pride? Yes, but also Ku Klux Klan. It appears on numerous official law enforcement sites as a hate symbol. So the point was made that W&L students surely understand that there IS a controversy.</p>
<p>I agree with you, celloguy- I know exactly what you are saying- South Carolina's blatent display of the Confederate flag is still a huge issue. I know the south is raidly moving ahead, but I find the flag too much! I also feel it means more than just "pride", and it is an easy way to display those negatives and cover up with "state rights", southern pride, ect, ect. My son will be attending Wake in N.C., and I have to say if we saw many Confederate flags hanging around, we would have have a little uncomfortable. Maybe not enough to rule it out, but enough to give that little twinge of negativity. The only areas of N.C. we frequent are filled with Long Islanders, so what do I know!</p>
<p>As a transplanted Southerner, I always get a chuckle when I see Northern good ole boys with a Confederate flag....Talk about not getting it.</p>
<p>Let's not derail this thread because of a controversial issue that's only marginal to the discussion. </p>
<p>From what we could see ,W&L seems to be doing its best to encourage diversity--partly by offering large scholarships to minorities--so I don't think you'd have to worry about such attitudes in the administration. Also their approach to minority recruitment was not cliched or obnoxious, which was our opinion of the way my son was approached by some other schools (like if you're Hispanic you must like dancing so we'll send you a brochure about our Latin dance club).</p>
<p>Our impressions from a visit with our son last year.
Very friendly students and admin.
Professors have a great reputation and academics are very good.<br>
Beautiful campus.
Conservative white students who like to dress "up" and are very preppy.
Heavy frat scene AND heavy drinking.<br>
Not much to do other than drinking - Lexington is cute but not geared to the students. Outdoor opportunities (hiking, etc) are good though.
In the end, it was too small and isolated (and a bit too southern) for my son. And he HATES dressing up - so that was a concern and "fit" issue. Frat scene also a negative - he would like the choice of NOT joining a frat and still fitting in - and this seems like a hard thing to do at W&L. Probably similar for the sorororities too. That said, he has a friend in high school who went there and loves it. To each his own...</p>
<p>Wanna know how the "locals" view W&L? Just look at the leadin from yesterday's Washington Post article:
[quote]
A groundbreaking poverty studies program at Washington and Lee University has some of the country's most affluent students pondering why they have -- and others have not</p>
<p>By Brigid Schulte
Sunday, August 6, 2006; Page W18</p>
<p>PRETTY, SLEEPY LEXINGTON, VA., IS A TOWN OF CROOKED STREETS, quaint coffee shops and charming old wood-and-brick houses. Nestled side by side among its magnolia trees and azalea bushes are two historic universities, Virginia Military Institute and Washington and Lee University. The Lylburn Downing Community Center is just a few blocks away but in a different part of Lexington -- what's called the black part of town. This area also has narrow streets and rockers sitting on front porches. But it's across an unseen border -- one that students from nearby Washington and Lee, which is nearly 90 percent white, have little occasion to cross...Yet this past spring break, her last at Washington and Lee, during a time when most students were hanging out at Sigma Chi's annual Derby Days or going to all-night parties at frat houses down by the river,..That the program is based at Washington and Lee University, a school for the elite and the privileged since 1749, is somewhat ironic. This is a school that, in some media and college rankings, turns out among the most CEOs, corporate presidents and political leaders per capita of any university in the nation -- about one-third of all graduates in a given year are from its Williams School of Commerce, Economics and Politics. W & L students are overwhelmingly white, largely from families who can easily pay the $27,960 annual tuition. Its reputation is Southern and conservative: It was one of the last all-male schools to admit women, in 1985, and this spring men from one fraternity were proudly sporting T-shirts with lines from a Hank Williams Jr. song: "If the South woulda won, we woulda had it made."...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Remember that a good part of the WP's readership is in VA.</p>
<p>If the quotes from the article don't give you a flavor of how W&L is viewed from nearby, I don't know what will.</p>
<p>I believe that it might be worthwhile for anyone interested in the school to check the section on WL in Choosing the Right College 2005 - The Whole Truth about America's Top Schools. The report was a LOT less forgiving than most posters in this thread, as it related a poisoned relation between the administration and the student body. In so many words, the school wants to increase diversity and the student body, led by super prowerful fraternities remains adamantly opposed to such event. At the time of the writing (probably a few years old by now) a new President had just started. Now in 2006, there is again a new President. I am not sure if his marching orders (to diminish the power of the frats) will be the same, or if he was brought in to remedy a number of the deficiencies pointed out in the ISI report (lack of diversity, increasing DUI, rampant alcohol consumption, overbearing and obnoxious fraternities, Pol Sci department in disarray, etc) </p>
<p>For the record, I believe that for someone who is not COMPLETELY in favor of fraternities attending WL might not be too wise. Obviously, this comes from someone who is 100% behind every effort to reduce fraternities' caustic presence to an absolute minimum. From my vantage point, a 80% participation in fraternities is a sure sign of the social life one can expect on campus. The school is what it is, and it does seem particularly attractive to a subset of our population. I am quite certain that there is a vast chasm between the people who love it and the ones who don't. Betting on whom will end up emerging from the battle between a progressively left leaning faculty and an ultra-conservative student body might be a bit hard.</p>
1 Like
<p>Unwritten (and others), I encourage you to read the entire feature article in Sunday's Washington Post (not just the intro). </p>
<p>^^^I agree with Esquette, especially when NMD heavily edits the intro....</p>
<p>mommydearest, </p>
<p>Show me A SINGLE QUOTE from the article where it says something different about the culture at W&L different from the parts I quoted? </p>
<p>Gentlereaders, other than mommy, you will find the rest of the article is about a child of privelidge who grew up in Charlotte (of which there were also references to a divide) who gives up her sorority trappings, passes on a wall street intern, to discover there is more in life. </p>
<p>OK, but W&L has not changed...</p>
<p>Well, NMD, when you edit out the part right before the ..., that says that the Shepard Program is unique, groundbreaking, and the first of its kind in the country, it does seem a bit disingenuous. It was started by the provost - not really some marginalised, yuppie professor. Shepard is funded by one of those uber-successful types that seem to typify W&L. These students voluntarily go into Shepard and are required to do internships - not nice internships with fancy offices, but doing things like living in rural Arkansas and talking to people who are beyond dirt poor. These kids aren't just making the motions of caring about poverty - you know, going to a soup kitchen - but are actively trying to do something for some of the poorest areas of the country. Or does rural Appalachia not really register on people's radar screens because it doesn't fit the downtrodden black stereotype?</p>
<p>But W&L students have money and brains. So what? Rich people can't have a conscience? Parental income is the new original sin?</p>
<p>The article was quite clear that W&L is one of only a handful of universities in the country that gives its leftover food to homeless shelters. Last time I checked, the age of a university and the skin colour of the people who inhabit it do not determine its lack of compassion.</p>
<p>I can't tell if Xiggi has ever been at the W&L campus but Xiggi's perspective I believe is quite accurate. Remember, W&L students OPPOSED co-education in 1985 and protested the administration's decision to admit women undergraduates. O.K., so that may be 'ancient history, but...</p>
<p>Fraternity life is pervasive, which is not necessarily negative. But the local townsfolk haven't always been happy about their frat neighbors in the surrounding neighborhoods. I recall legislation the town passed some years ago to restrict fraternity houses.</p>
<p>The Stars and Bars, i,e. the Confederate Flag. For some, it's convenient to hide their malicious thoughts behind the "southern pride" of the flag. Those types of people readily ignore the facts of today, like S. Carolina and Georgia discarding contemparary (circa 1950s) state flags and incorporating the Stars and Bars in order to express opposition to integration laws. Even a W&L friend of mine who had an ancestor fight for the Confederacy remains quite annoyed that the klan appropriated the southern battle flag. Any visitor will see nearly dozens of these flags in W&L residence halls.</p>
<p>i begin W&L in two weeks. i have visited several times and know many students who currently attend. it is indeed true that W&L is full of wealthy, southern preps; what is not true, however, is that most (or any) of these kids are racist or closed to diversity. the university has top notch academics (much better than its #13 ranking by USnews), a vibrant social scene, caring/ personable/ affable professors, a gorgeous campus, and is the only top LAC with an accredited business program (as well as a top 25 law school). could the school be more diverse? absolutely. but i am tired of hearing from so many close-minded northerners (yes, close minded northerners) how W&L is merely a "trap of close minded conservatism" and "the last bastion of the 'Old South'." i have never met any group of kids more friendly, open, and happy than those at W&L; it is the reason i immediately fell in love with the school. i visited other top LACs; schools such as Wesleyan and Vassar are widely known for its diversity, open-mindedness, and liberalism; what i found at these schools, however, was indeed the opposite; i was immediately frowned upon for dressing the way i do and being from new orleans; the only group that many of these students were open to were those like themselves (the "bring down the corporations, smoke a joint, save a whale, and become a vegan" stereotype). anyway, i love W&L and hope you do as well when you visit in the fall. good luck.</p>
<p>lake washington, of course the W&L students protested the co-ed change, but only becusae of tradition, not sexism. would not the students of smith, mount holyoke, wellesley, etc. protest a change to co-education as well? would that not be the exact same thing?</p>