Hi,
I was planning on applying ED to barnard because I thought it was a more laid back and supportive community. I know that it’s Columbia University, but I didn’t know how close it was with the other Columbia schools. I don’t know any Barnard students but I talked to a junior i know at columbia and she told me that Barnard is pretty much just the same as going to Columbia/an Ivy league school… so really stressful, not much sleep, lots of competitiveness, and a good amount of elitist kids. I know the acceptance rate is pretty low so that must mean people are at least semi-competitive but there’s a lot of info about Columbia stress culture online and it doesn’t sound pretty. (When I was researching colleges, Wellesley was actually the women’s college named for stress culture, and it feels like the opposite now) The other schools I’m considering for ED are Brown, Yale, and Williams. If you can tell, what I’m looking for is a place where people care about academics but also prioritize their well-being and have social lives and relaxation time. Does Barnard fit in with these schools more, or with somewhere cutthroat like Columbia and Uchicago? Is it different/separate really from Columbia at all? From the way the girl I know made it sound, it’s one university so there’s only a certain extent to which they can be different, but I feel like she might just feel that way because she goes to Columbia.
Maybe it depends on your major, because the students I know or know of there LOVE it deeply and are collaborative and helpful to each other. They aren’t business majors though; all over, don’t business majors tend to be more competitive?
I’d suggest that you opt for RD instead. If you opt for any college where admission is highly competitive, you are likely to find it filled with highly competitive students You may find that you would be more comfortable at a college that might be a match or even safety for you.
It’s been a decade since my daughter graduated from Barnard but my impression was that it was filled with highly driven, independent-minded, ambitious women. Barnard offers many benefits to its students over Columbia, but I wouldn’t describe it as “laid back”.
Two schools that are supportive as you say, offer excellent academics, and are decidedly NOT cutthroat are Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke.
Of the two, Bryn Mawr might be closer to what you’re looking for. It seems to check all of your boxes of –
- Separate in feel, but has access to Ivy-level classes (it’s in a consortium with Swarthmore, Haverford and UPenn in Philly)
- Cares deeply about academics but has several things in place to ensure that the students are NOT competitive with each other; rather they care that they personally are achieving their best and it doesn’t matter how your neighbor did on the exam. Students report that it’s genuinely caring environment. Low on the stress spectrum. Way low.
- For example of how stress is purposefully lowered, exams are self-scheduled and the honor system means that you can leave stuff out on campus and it will be there when you return.
- Deeply intellectual environment.
- Ambitious, strong women but who are also interested in caring for each other and themselves and the world.
- Gorgeous campus besides
- Access to socializing with men, in that Haverford is a brother school traditionally although now Haverford is coed. Men will be in some of the BMC classes and BMC women will be in Haverford classes. The campuses are a mile apart. Buses run regularly to Haverford and Swarthmore – a relatively more competitive environment but also 30 minutes away by the special bus. UPenn is about 20 minutes away by (free cost – paid for by BMC) train line.
Perhaps look at the website NICHE to see how the students discuss their experiences at the campuses you’re considering.
Mt. H is also way, way low on the stress spectrum.
Best of luck to you.
My daughter had had virtually the same concerns. She was a very hard worker already and certainly was prepared to be academically challenged, but also wanted to have a college experience that she would be able to remember fondly later in life. The Ivy-Leagues, and the perceived “preppiness” were very suspect to her. Then, during Banard’s accepted-students weekend, she quickly connected with other girls and suddenly realized that everyone else was just “cooking with water” as well. She decided for Barnard from several attractive offers, and is very happy with her choice.
It certainly helped that from early age she had always loved to spend time in NYC and couldn’t wait to move there from the suburbs (although the other Eastern cities were all in the running.)
The stress depends on how well you can manage your time. My daughter is taking 5 courses each semester and as long as she stays on top of work and assignments, she can set aside time to spend in the city, attend concerts or shows, or just chill with friends at BC or CC.
Whether you get sleep whether you procrastinate till the last night before something’s due. That is the likely source of the “war-stories” people love to share with their peers.
Competitiveness of the student body? Sure, they are “competitive” or they wouldn’t have gotten in. But, that not’s the same as “competing”! Once you are IN because of your “competitive” results from high school, you truly are competing with yourself, not with others.
Cut-Throat? That’s not at all the sense I get from my daughter. There simply is no reason to go after one another (or, at least until you enter graduate school).
A “good amount of elitist kids”? This is New York – everyone HAS a life, so get use to “live – and let live”. At any college in the 212 area code you are bound to find people of all sorts of life, some will have very posh background, some people struggle financially. The key, you’ll be in an environment where you choose your own path, define and stand up for your own principles, pick your own social circle. Everyone else will do the same, you just have to accept theirs will be different.
A “a more laid back and supportive community”? Certainly the Barnard quad, behind the Barnard gates, does offer you a quick and welcome retreat from the craziness of the city, and the university, whenever you need that. But, I don’t think “laid back” is a good description at all. I think most people are fairly active, have things they enjoy doing, opportunities to explore – but not because they are driven to it by their college. The “Big City” hustle transfers to the campus as well, but that doesn’t mean you can’t decide to spend a Sunday afternoon just binge-watching some show in your dorm, if you feel like it.
When you go to school in Manhattan, you probably chose that location because you are quite independent and cosmopolitan. Yes, you’ll find that your peers and the staff will be supportive, and respond to your outreach, but it’s not a “cuddly” environment. Rural colleges in smaller cities will likely offer a very structured, and much more cohesive sense of a “gated community”. Being located in the city, and being part of a large university, means that “the community” is whatever you make out of it.
It’s way past the ED deadlines, but I would think Brown would stand out as the ‘low-stress’ school from your list. Definitely not Yale or Williams, and while Barnard may be seen as less cutthroat than Columbia, it’s still an NYC school, with NYC levels of stress. Of course it’s competitive. You are responsible for your own success, and you’ll be vying to stand out above the rest, just like your peers. I’m curious as to where you eventually applied ED, if your open to sharing? Also, I agree with calmom; when in doubt, apply RD. If you turn down an ED spot, the school you turn down will report that to other schools, and backing out of a legitimate and serious commitment never looks good.
@musemuse Usually when a student turns down an ED spot, it’s because of financial or personal reasons that prevent them from doing so rather than for showing traits of lack of commitment. ED is very different from EA or RD, and applicants know how serious it is because of the contract you have to sign and they know that this is their top choice school. I’m just saying that not all applicants share the same narrative and there are various reasons beyond their control to turn down an ED offer
@ibsadgurl
I’m more than aware of that, however, because there seems to be some confusion, what I meant in my original comment that if you’re unsure on where you want to apply than it’s best to do RD, and OP seemed unsure. You can pull out of ED if there are financial concerns, that is true, but if you pull out of ED at all, then the school you turn down can and often will alert other schools that you have done so. Some schools may decline to accept you automatically if there do not intend to offer more financial aid or may make other conclusions based on your withdrawal, It’s possible to pull out off ED, but not encouraged and not looked highly upon. Often times, schools will comment on this somewhere on their website, and it’s always a good idea to read through their admissions section completely. This was one of the reasons I chose not to apply to Barnard, because turning down an ED acceptance based on financial reasons involves a whole host of other complications, and I made that decision after talking extensively with my counselor. The other reason was that my parents were both unavailable for a number of weeks, and I couldn’t complete some of the financial aid material on my own. But that’s kind of complicated.