Barnard too co-ed? Smith too barren? Wellesley too preppy?

Hello everyone! I am a senior and have applied to the above mentioned Seven Sisters and have been trying to find my best fit one, hopefully I’ll have the luxury to decide between all three come March. Now, I am genuinely interested in all three of these schools and they are my top choices overall, but there have been some stereotypes that I have seen posted over and over again here on CC. My ideal college is all-womens, close community, artsy and quirky, unabashedly feminist, highly activist, and urban. From what I can tell Smith and Barnard have the edge over Wellesley according to these categories with Barnard having the most edge with an urban location.

I would like to major in the humanities most possibly ethnic studies and/or gender studies. I love to create art and to write. However, I am fully committed to exploring my interests and love LACs because of this.

Back to the headliner, some things concern me.

I’ve heard that:

-Barnard’s relationship with Columbia gives it more of a co-ed feel than the feel of an all women’s college. I don’t want to miss out on the wonderful benefits that come with attending an womens college.

-Smith was very in the middle of nowhere-y. I am a city girl and have always been in a big city. I do not want to feel isolated.

-Wellesley is very preppy and polished. I have never been of great wealth and do not want to feel like a second class student at my own college.

Can anyone confirm or deny these general observations posted here on CC? I know that much of this is anecdotal and subjective but I’d really appreciate more perspective than I have right now.

I also do not have the resources (time or money) to visit in the near future or before decision day because I am enrolled in programs that do not coincide with my school breaks.

Barnard is very strongly focused on women’s issues, but it is definitely not an all-female environment. Feminist, yes. Female-dominated–yes. But if you attend, most of your Barnard classes will have some men in them, although they are likely to be predominantly women; and you will probably find yourself taking at least some of your classes at Columbia, if for nothing else to fill all the 9-ways-of-knowing requirements. On the other hand, with an arts & humanities focus, you will probably find that you will be able to get most of the classes you want at Barnard, and that even classes you take at Columbia will tend to have more women than men.

At Barnard, you will live in a large corridor-style women’s dorm the first year, but there will be frequent male visitors to students living there – so even if you don’t invite them over, you are going to be seeing men in the elevators and common areas. If you want to be active in various student organizations-- then almost all are shared with Columbia and include men – though you could opt to join a sorority, which may be a way to help strengthen bonds with other women socially. But if “highly activist” means community or political involvement - then those sorts of activities will definitely draw plenty of men as well.

The campus is teensy – it would probably feel very constraining to spend all your time on campus – especially when you are in NYC with all it has to offer --but as soon as you leave campus you are outside the college bubble in a very diverse and vibrant city, so you will be surrounded by masses of people of all ages, ethnicity and genders.

Looking for a great education: – go to Barnard. Strongly want “all women’s” …it just doesn’t work that way.

I think you really are going to have to make a choice between urban and “all” women.

However, I’d add that I think that Barnard does offer the benefits associated with a women’s college – whatever those are. There’s a little bit of of hype and romanticizing there as well - but certainly Barnard is strongly focused on women’s issues.

I have never been to Smith but I have never heard it described as “barren” – it is in a small, vibrant city - Northampton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northampton,_Massachusetts for details. So “middle of nowhere” or “isolated” wouldn’t apply.

As to your statement, " I have never been of great wealth and do not want to feel like a second class student at my own college." I am assuming that you have not yet been admitted to any of the colleges, it and may be that your decision will be made for you by admission results and financial aid packages. So it might be premature to be worried about this. However, if you are very much reliant on financial aid, you may find that you feel like a “second class citizen” at any private LAC. I think that dynamic exists everywhere-- the way to avoid that is to attend a public college of university. (Basically, that’s where most middle and lower income students are to be found).

I can tell you that Barnard, being urban, offers plenty of opportunities to earn money. NYC offers plenty of opportunities to spend it.

Financial aid is likely to be stronger at Wellesley or Smith than Barnard – and Smith offers some merit aid, which gives them the flexibility to also give preferential packaging to some students.

I would just say - wait and see where you get in. Don’t make your decision based on stereotypes --instead look at college as a time to expand your horizons and challenge yourself. Part of the challenge will be letting go of the idea of a perfect or dream college, and recognizing that wherever you go, you are in charge of your own life and have the ability to shape your own experience.

Thanks for bringing me back down to earth. I am thinking very prematurely I just really hope come March I am fortunate enough to decide between the three. I’m thinking that for Barnard the compromise between Urban + resources of two schools and “all” women’s wont be hard at all to make if I am granted the opportunity. Comparing Northampton’s population of 28,000+ to a city with millions was what made it seem barren to me. The piece of advice I appreciate most is “Part of the challenge will be letting go of the idea of a perfect or dream college, and recognizing that wherever you go, you are in charge of your own life and have the ability to shape your own experience.” Thank you!

Northampton is a hip little city. Lots of great restaurants, live music, culture, shopping. D went to MHC but spent many a weekend visiting Northampton.

Smith is probably the most artsy and feminist and activist.

I agree. Although you’re definitely going to find more of that type of student at any of these schools that at more conservative and co-ed schools, I think Smith is probably the artsiest/quirkiest, and most social-warrior activist and feminist of the of the three. And as mentioned above, Northampton is a cool little city. The Pioneer Valley area of Massachusetts has a lot of artists and a lot of lesbians, so that town is very artsy and feminist :slight_smile: Smith has a good art department with nice studios. Smith and Mount Holyoke (close by, free bus connecting them) have terrific art museums.

I think at Wellesley you would certainly find pockets of strongly artsy/activist/feminist students, but the overall vibe is much less so than at Smith. (These, of course, are my impressions only, but D applied to both and we visited all three several times.) And I agree with the above posters that you’re not going to find the same close 'all-women" vibe at Barnard… so maybe you will have to decide how to prioritize your needs if urban is really important.

Wellesley is not urban. In fact I’d say it feels more isolated than Smith, even though Boston is a reasonable bus ride away. The town is very small and very suburban, and the campus is sort of removed from it. Smith, on the other hand, is right smack IN Northampton: shops and restaurants are right across the street.

I’m not sure about Barnard, but the vibe at Wellesley is -I think- more competitive and stressy than at Smith. My D goes to MHC and one of the reasons she chose it is that she loved the really warm, collaborative vibe there. I think Smith is a bit more towards MHC on that spectrum.

I know you say you can’t visit, but I would HIGHLY recommend that you try. Many of these schools will pay to fly you in for a visit (or accepted students day) especially if you are a highly qualified candidate. Can’t you take a day or two off school? Personally, I think that a decision as major as this, that will affect the rest of your life, trumps high school attendance during the last semester of senior year! You are talking about three schools with very different personalities, it really would pay to visit them before committing, I believe.

Agree about visiting… between taking days off from a program you are enrolled in vs. making a mistake in your final college choice, hands down you need to make sure you are happy with your college choice.

Thank you all. I am trying to prioritize a trip now. Probably best to do so after my decisions letters finish mailing out but definitely before mid/late April.

For the record, the center of the town of Wellesley starts at one corner of the campus. :slight_smile:

Northampton is a hip little city, and it is right there. On the other hand, Boston and Cambridge have an enormous amount more to offer culturally, and they are a free, hourly, about 40 min bus ride away. (It’s only 13 miles, after all.) Then with Barnard, there you are in the thick of the Upper West Side.

Each one has a lot to offer.

“Wellesley is very preppy and polished. I have never been of great wealth and do not want to feel like a second class student at my own college.”

My daughter is preppy and polished, but I don’t think that’s typical of many of her cohorts. You will not feel second-class if you aren’t from money; if anything, it’s the more well-to-do students who get a little ostracized because privilege.

Color me completely unimpressed by Northampton. It’s like a bazillion little towns in the midwest with some coffee shops and theaters except because it’s in Massachusetts it’s supposedly cool. That one you have to visit.

You should not have left out Bryn Mawr. Probably meets all if your criteria. Women’s college, coed colleges near by that cross register including Haverford and Penn, beautiful suburb, minutes from Philadelphia.

No long ago, men could reside in the BMC dorms. Somewhat amusing:

https://ehgazette.blogs.brynmawr.edu/2008/12/18/the-ginger-jesus-of-bmc/

D and I visited all of these, and Wellesley gave her a great vibe. My sister attended Wellesely and they have a very diverse campus - if you can say that about an all women’s college. Yes, there are some preppy, privileged girls there, but moreso there are lots of great young ladies of all shape/sizes/colors/backgrounds/attitudes. Yes, some of these girls are snotty/catty/competitive, but they are much more the exception than the rule there. The T stop makes Boston an easy destination, my sister attended several classes at Harvard and also one at MIT.

Don’t give in to the fear that you will be treated second class at Wellesley - it is truly a remarkable place.

On our tour of Wellesley, our guide was a first generation URM student from a very modest background. So when D asked her what she was most surprised about by Welleslely (which I feel is the best question to ask a tour guide), she told us it was she NEVER felt the other girls looked down on her in any way, or treated her differently because of where she came from. She was really surpised as she sort of expected it, but the girls in her circle were just awesome.

Tour guides like that, who really love where they are, and are getting the most out of their opportunity, can make a college visit on a snowy day on winter break seem like it is sunny.

@ricck1 No. I ruled out BM and the application date was Jan 15. applicable advice is the best advice :slight_smile:

I hear back for EE from Wellesley on Monday but after decisions are mailed out I will make trips. Helps that they are all east coast Thanks everyone!

@ifwelivepoetry‌
My daughter visited Barnard, Wellesley, Bryn Mawr and Smith. She stayed overnight at Bryn Mawr and Wellesley. At Wellesley, everyone was in their room by 10:00 pm. She said the girls seemed to be solely focused on studying. She said it was absolutely beautiful to see the campus. Some students at Wellesley were putting down Barnard College. She said if felt stiff.

Bryn Mawr was not really in consideration. At least not until she visited. She absolutely loved the place. The people were kind, helpful, and encouraging, and the classes were interesting. She liked the physical environment, the proximity to Philadelphia, the arts, and the food.

Smith was difficult to reach in some respects. We left NYC and took a bus to see Smith. The staff was incredibly nice and helpful. The office of student services was open during the summer. The cafeteria was under renovations. The people in the Admissions Office were nice and friendly. The campus was beautiful.

My daughter will be attending Barnard in the fall. She loved the fact that the school has a well known writing program and all of the young ladies are feminists. The school has about 2500 students so most classes should be small. We are told that only 9 percent of the classes have more than 50 students. Students have access to the art museums around town and there are creative art shows which crop up everywhere in the Big Apple. Barnard has a large number of alumni who are in the communications industry (book writers, editors, news media, magazine publishing, etc.). Barnard has a lot of programs and clubs that are truly designed to empower women.

So my suggestion is to follow Barnard, Smith, and Wellesley on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Look at some of the programs and activities being discussed. See what the students who attend those schools have to say (not the comments from the competitors). Be sure all three schools offer classes in ethnic studies and gender studies. The environments are totally different. Barnard is urban. Wellesley is suburban. Smith is rural. The ride to Smith is scenic. It is in the Connecticut River Valley and the mountains enclose the rivers. All three colleges are great schools and you can succeed at all three. It is about choice. Good luck.

Thank you so much @Tampa2015‌ that was a very informative post especially paired with what I was previously told. I got a likely from Wellesley so I’m counting on good news come March and setting up visits for the schools.

Just so you know, taking a bus from NYC to smith, is absolutely the “long way”. Much better to fly to Hartford which is 30-40 minutes away. Or if you want take public transport try the amtrak. Compared to NYC smith is rural but compared to 9o% of the USA smith is suburban.

I used to work at Barnard. Barnard, IMO, has the best of both worlds - yes, a sort of co-ed feel with some shared clubs and opportunities with Columbia students. However, being on campus does feel very much like a women’s college - an enclave, a special place. I went to a women’s college that was also right across the street from a men’s college and a co-ed university and it certainly did not diminish the feel of going to a women’s college. Your classes at Barnard will still be primarily women.

I think Smithies take advantage of Northampton to a great extent - I’ve talke to a couple of Smith alumnae who are IN LOVE with Northampton. The other thing is what you think you like won’t necessarily be what you really like. I thought I was a total city girl too, and I went to an urban women’s college. The downside of it is that particularly in later years, campus life can become a bit less vibrant because everyone goes off campus to seek their fun. (That was definitely the case at Barnard/Columbia - I worked in residential life.) You can always move to a city after college, too.

It took a minute for it to dawn on me that you meant flying to Hartford from somewhere else rather than flying to Hartford from NYC.

It absolutely wouldn’t make sense to fly from NYC to Hartford - those flights are expensive ($200-500+) and most of them have one stop somewhere that makes no sense, like Philadelphia. The Amtrak from New York to Hartford is like 2-3 hours depending on whether you get an express or not, and then another 45 minutes to Northampton. That’s about $80-150. A Megabus from New York to Amherst is about 4 hours, but only $25. Personally, I’d rather take the bus.

There’s also actually one train a day that goes from New York to Northampton - the Vermonter. About $120 round trip.