I disagree circuitrider. Barnard is dedicated to educating women and has a largely female faculty and administration. It also has a host of special programs for women that, unfortunately, are not open to women from Columbia College. If Barnard didn’t exist, the number of women faculty and administrators in the University would plunge, as happened when Radcliffe College disappeared.
Thank you for correcting me!
Indeed, it’s not two DEGREES, it’s two “Commencements”:
At the Barnard commencement, students individually cross the stage to receive congratulations from the President of the College.
Then, at the University commencement, the actual Columbia degrees for students from all eighteen schools, colleges, and affiliated institutions are actually conferred (without individual recognition).
https://barnard.edu/commencement/about-ceremonies
Yes, I would question that THAT is the “biggest draw”. I don’t from what figures you were able to derive such a fact?
I would think the “biggest draw” is its unique position of:
- foremost: “technically” being a Women’s College with all its unique advantages, but
- importantly: being socially fully integrated with a co-ed university, and
- is located in New York City, and
- crucially: sharing ON SITE resources, faculty and courses of a large University,
and yes, as the “icing on top”, it happens to be one of the colleges of an Ivy League University, just like Columbia College.
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This whole thread has been so enlightening. One of my very close friends was a Barnard grad, and I simply always took it for granted that it was just Columbia University.
It sounds like a fascinating place with its own strong identity but part of the CU brand.
Just defending myself (and noting that it was a formatting mistake in my mistake- it should have been quoting an earlier poster)- the idea that Columbia is the biggest draw for Barnard was NOT mine- I was rebutting a previous post! I have huge respect for Barnard, and the women in our family who are alums are excellent ambassadors for the college.
I’m chiming in as my D just started at Barnard. The biggest draw for her, and the women she is meeting, was 1) a strong focus on empowering women (she applied to most of the other historically women’s colleges as well) 2) a smaller, LAC environment, and 3) NYC. She does like that the # of classes and peers are amplified by Columbia. But, she had no interest in going to Columbia and didn’t apply there. (And, she had “higher ranked/prestigious” options, including an Ivy).
Barnard has amazing programs for women, though it is true that if it weren’t technically a college of Columbia University (while maintaining its own Board and admin), it’s small endowment could be a problem. The courses, clubs, and other resources of Columbia help Barnard immensely in this regard.
Just FYI, our daughter knows a Columbia woman who just transferred to Barnard. The “vibe” at Barnard is quite different from that at Columbia. Unless one looks for colleges based solely on rankings or perceived prestige, a student is sure to prefer one to the other. And, there’s also the Columbia Core. You either want that or you don’t. Barnard has some more interesting and modern foundational requirements - again, for some women.
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I agree, but you’re missing the nuance that Barnard has been around or directly affiliated with Columbia U for the entirety of its existence. If it had been located somewhere else then yes, it likely would have the support of a HWC like Wellesley. But it hasn’t had to have that BECAUSE of the Columbia/Barnard relationship, not despite it.
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My D22 just applied to Barnard - has your daughter been pleased overall? Anything she wasn’t expecting/disappointed in?
Almost reversed: It’s actually Barnard that’s supporting the University’s budget, by paying Columbia millions annually in contracted sharing fees.
This dates back to the 70s when Columbia was in financial difficulty and thus sought to absorb Barnard’s assets. For several years the University applied leverage in various areas (such as personnel, salary, tenure), hoping to entice Barnard’s trustees to approve a merger, but ultimately Barnard realized they had much bigger potential by maintaining organizational independence as a women’s college.
I wouldn’t be so quick to believe everything I read in the Harvard Crimson.
I had a sister at Barnard at the time and it was common knowledge that a major goal of the College was to renegotiate the terms of its annual payments to Columbia which were projected to grow and:
However small a role these payments figured in Columbia’s recovery plans, both their magnitude (as a share of the overall budget) and the every likelihood of their growing open-endedness , unquestionably contributed to the feeling among some Barnard’s trustees that the College’s days were numbered and that some endgame was in order.
Jacquelyn Mattfeld | Barnard 125 (columbia.edu)
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I apologize that Harvard isn’t a satisfactory reference. Let me instead refer you to the book “ZORA: In Search of Zora Neale Hurston”:
“Columbia president William J. McGill predicted in 1970 that Barnard College and Columbia College would merge within five years, and Columbia’s financial difficulties during the 1970s increased its desire to merge, but Barnard resisted doing so because of the university’s large debt.”
Or if you prefer an “insider’s” view, here a more in-depth timeline of those years, and the role the different factions played later in the 1970s:
In the aftermath of the protests, (Columbia) alumni giving fell off sharply, and its recently launched capital campaign ground to a halt. As one Barnard trustee characterized the situation: “They were in the red; we were in the black.”
Barnard’s pass proved short-lived, however. Columbia decided that Barnard should help with the University’s financial recovery. The University’s new President William J. McGill observed that Barnard enjoyed benefits from its affiliation with Columbia for which it paid nothing. These benefits included use of Columbia libraries and athletic facilities by students and faculty, as well as cross-registration of Barnard students in Columbia classes for which no charge had been exacted since 1962. When presented with these bills, Barnard quietly agreed to pay up.
The key word here is “some” - which ended up not being the view held by the majority: By 1983, after replacing presidents twice, the majority trustees with a vision ultimately succeeded in reasserting Barnard’s independence and setting it on a growth path to continued success.
(The point being: The stereotype picture of the big University pulling the women’s college along, specially financially, does not reflect the much more nuanced history of, and between, the two institutions. And it certainly misrepresents the College and the University with respect to the actual direction of money flow, and with respect to today’s students and their parents, for whom this website is intended!)
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The one thing we can agree on is the fact that Columbia doesn’t pay Barnard much, if anything, as far as either of us knows.
Fun Fact: Barnard’s entire endowment would barely cover Columbia’s physical plant budget for one year.
A relative of mine works in the business office at Columbia told me that all of Columbia’s bills for the year are paid from other revenue streams before they ever look at tuition. They are flush.
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We can substitute assumption with knowledge. According to Barnard’s audited financial statements, e.g., for the fiscal year ending June 2020, here the amounts that Barnard is instead paying Columbia:
- Intercorporate Agreement
An intercorporate agreement between the College and Columbia University provides for payment for the exchange of certain services between the two institutions. These services include cross-registration for students, college services, faculty exchange, athletics, and certain special services and support costs.
The Statements of Activities include expense in the amount of approximately $6.9 million and $6.6 million for the years ended June 30, 2020 and 2019, respectively, for services provided under the terms of the agreement.
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Alternatively, we can move the conversation forward. Please do so.
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Overall, my daughter is pleased with her choice of Barnard. She loves NYC. She was surprised and a bit intimidated by how smart, interesting, well-read, and eloquent she perceives everyone to be. She’s definitely not a big fish in a small pond there. She wasn’t expecting the clubs/publications to be so competitive. She also wasn’t expecting that it would be so hard to get classes she wants. Despite all of this, she says she thinks she’s in the right place “to become the woman she wants to be.” I would say Barnard is a great place for the confident woman, though I think those who aren’t there yet when they arrive can thrive - their peers, faculty, and environment will push to succeed.
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Thank you for being us back to topic. 
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Is it true that applying to BOTH Columbia and Barnard is a death knell for both applications?
The reason that I am asking this is that there specific programs (e.g., dual degree programs or specific majors) that are only available at Columbia that a candidate might want to apply for. However, since nothing is guaranteed, and Barnard has its own incredible strengths, that same candidate might want to also consider applying to Barnard for its own many desirable programs etc.
Anecdotes, data, and/or common sense guidance would all be appreciated!
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Easy answer: No!
Columbia College and Barnard College have completely separate admission processes and are reviewed solely by the respective college, without knowledge of the other. Their is no direct relation between the colleges, but they are under a common “umbrella”, Columbia University, and through that share access to the same University facilities, courses, faculty, athletics,… (Desperately attempting to avoid any terminology that will upset certain readers…)
Many friend circles are a mix of students from both.
It is not uncommon for female students to apply to both colleges, as both colleges have very distinct selection criteria and methodology. If accepted by both, then the young lady will be able to deepen her understanding of each college’s advantages over the other and decide which looks like her best fit.
In the case of my daughter, she had already decided along the way, that she would choose Barnard over Columbia College - and for others, the choice might go the opposite way.
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Consortium?