<p>I’ve heard a lot of different things about Barnard and Columbia and I was wondering what the exact relationship was/how most people perceive Barnard and Columbia?
From what I’ve heard, these are the most popular views:
Some tell me that Barnard is simply another undergrad school in Columbia like the engineering school/arts and science. However this seems unlikely because you apply separately to Barnard, the curricula are different, there are different sports teams, etc.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Barnard is an easy way to get a Columbia degree. I’ve heard that many at Columbia and NYC in general look down on Barnard graduates.</p></li>
<li><p>Barnard is a great LAC regardless of its affiliation with Columbia.</p></li>
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<p>Please tell me what you guys think about their relationship!</p>
<ol>
<li>Barnard women play on Columbia teams.
What the Ivy League actually is is a sports division - Division I.
So if Barnard women play on the Division I teams, then they must be part of the Ivy League.</li>
</ol>
<p>Blizzard, I see in the other thread that you’ve been accepted. I asked because I am happy to help out a prospective student, but didn’t want to get involved in another one of these long Barnard/Columbia debate threads. But I see that you really want or need to know so here goes:</p>
<p>1. Some tell me that Barnard is simply another undergrad school in Columbia like the engineering school/arts and science. However this seems unlikely because you apply separately to Barnard, the curricula are different, there are different sports teams, etc.</p>
<p>Barnard is an “affiliated” school with Columbia, which means that it is part of Columbia University but also has an independent administration for its own admissions and finances.</p>
<p>The fact that admission is separate isn’t all that significant because it is common in many US universities. For example, the various undergraduate schools of NYU all handle admissions separately – being admitted to Tisch is a very different thing than getting into Stern. </p>
<p>The curricula at Barnard & Columbia is overlapping, not different – but the basic education requirements of all students is different. (more below) Columbia has the “core”, while Barnard has “9 ways of knowing” which is a broader and more flexible set of requirements, but for some individuals might seem like a bigger barrier than the core if they find they have to take a lot of courses outside their main areas of interest. </p>
<p>Depending on your major, you could find that you are studying mostly at Barnard, mostly at Columbia, or a mix of both. Some majors are duplicated between the schools – for example, both Barnard & Columbia have history departments and both offer their own majors. But a history at Barnard might sign up for history courses at Columbia, as well as the other way around. You would just look in the catalog and sign up for the course you want – you probably wouldn’t pay much attention to where it was taught while signing up.</p>
<p>Some majors are coordinated between the schools – for example, the slavic languages department is a joint department, with Columbia and Barnard profs in the department. </p>
<p>Some majors are offered by only one school, and students who want to major in that subject do so through whichever school offers it. For example, if a Columbia student wants to major in architecture, they would take their courses at Barnard. </p>
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<p>Barnard’s academic standards are the same as Columbia, and Barnard faculty members are for the most part responsible for teaching Columbia classes as well, because a very large number of classes are considered joint between the schools. </p>
<p>My d. took about 40% of her course work at Columbia and generally found it easier to get A’s at Columbia than at Barnard. I don’t know if that is because of the specific courses she took or because of higher expectations from Barnard profs. </p>
<p>As noted above, Barnard does not have the core curriculum – so the specific course work is somewhat different between the two schools. Someone who doesn’t want to do the core might see Barnard as “easier”.</p>
<p>However, I actually think that Barnard is more demanding for many majors, because most Barnard majors require a senior thesis, whereas at Columbia students in the same majors might opt to do an honors thesis, but it isn’t required for graduation. My d. essentially spent her entire senior year buried in a pile of books working on her thesis – definitely not an “easy” way to get a degree. (But she loved doing it – it’s kind of cool to really have the opportunity to immerse yourself in a particular subject for a full academic year, and my d.'s thesis topic was interesting & fun to research). </p>
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That has not been my daughter’s experience. The Barnard degree commands a lot of respect, particularly in New York. </p>
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<p>Well, yes – but I think it is really strengthened by its affiliation. It is a mid-sized LAC with the resources of a large research university. So you get the LAC-style education and reseach-u. level resources and study options.</p>
<p>Just another point of reference: my d did not have any experience with Columbia students “looking down” on her because she was a Barnard student.</p>
<p>“I’ve heard that many at Columbia and NYC in general look down on Barnard graduates.”</p>
<p>Why would people in NYC in general look down on the second most selective liberal arts program in the area? I’ve lived most of my life in and just outside NYC, and frankly it would be unusual to hear anything of the kind. That is not a sentiment one hears here. Quite the contrary, in actuality it is highly respected here. People who have heard of it but don’t really have firsthand knowledge associate it with Columbia, and most people who did not themselves attend Columbia have only the vaguest notion, if at all, that there’s any distinction to be made.</p>
<p>“Barnard is a great LAC regardless of its affiliation with Columbia”.
Maybe, but that’s a little like speculating on whether my body would still be great without my left arm. The affiliation is an integral part of the deal if you come to Barnard, and everyone knows it. </p>
<p>Everyone, that is, except US News. If you want a rating of Barnard as if it were a stand-alone without the affiliation, that’s what US News does. Though I believe they underrank it even on that basis, for a few reasons. But if one just looks at the difference between their overall ranking and their own selectivity ranking, it is clear applicants are finding value there beyond what they are evaluating. A good chunk of that extra value comes from the affiliation.</p>
<p>“Some tell me that Barnard is simply another undergrad school in Columbia like the engineering school/arts and science. However this seems unlikely because you apply separately to Barnard, the curricula are different, there are different sports teams, etc.”</p>
<p>1) Barnard varsity athletes play on Columbia sports teams, not separate ones.
2)The curricula at columbia SEAS and columbia college are yet more different.</p>
<p>So these are not the reasons, yet it is true that Barnard is not identically another undergrad school exactly like SEAS and Columbia College are, because those colleges are literal colleges of the university and Barnard is set up as an affiliate college of the university, with separate adminstration, trustees and endowment. Nevertheless, in practice it functions within the context of the university umbrella.</p>
<p>Barnard College is again the Number 1 most selective single sex college in the U.S.<br>
Columbia College this year has moved up and is currently the number 2 most selective Ivy League College.</p>
<p>Columbia College students should be proud to have the Most Selective single sex College affiliated with them.</p>
<p>Oh, and not that it matters, but: Go to the Columbia University Admissions Web Site, and then see what is listed under schools, (you will be surprised)</p>
<p>While Barnard Women my participate in Barnard “Club” and “Intramural” teams, all Barnard Varsity Athletes are Columbia Lions.</p>
<p>Discover more about the varsity athletic teams
Women at Barnard and the undergraduate colleges of Columbia University compete as teammates on University-wide athletic teams. The arrangement, known as a “consortium” under NCAA rules, is one of just three in the nation and is the only one at the Division I level. The consortium provides the opportunity for female students enrolled at separate colleges to compete within one athletic program drawing on the resources of all the colleges.</p>
<p>OUR HISTORY</p>
<p>The Columbia/Barnard Athletic Consortium was established in 1983 to coincide with the admission of women to Columbia College and was built upon an already thriving women’s athletic program at Barnard. By building on that program, the University sought to provide all undergraduate women with the finest competitive opportunities. Both Barnard and Columbia believe that the consortium creates an athletic program within the Ivy League that is far stronger than what either institution could offer individually. And, the choices made available to prospective student athletes, within the same university, are unparalleled.</p>
<p>Quote:
Go to the Columbia University Admissions Web Site, and then see what is listed under schools, (you will be surprised) </p>
<p>No surprising. The web site lists all official colleges and affiliate schools which include Barnrad, Jewish Theological Seminary, Teachers College, and Union Theological Seminary. The interesting thing is that Barnard seems to attempt emphasizing its independent identity more by using word Partnership on their new website.</p>
<p>I guess he got banned using the “billkamix” handle, easy to create a new user name, hopefully moderators will catch on, if called to their attention.</p>
<p>I would be willing to bet money (if I was a betting woman) that Nanaba is past poster with a new screen name. Same old same old. Ignore the ■■■■■.</p>
<p>To Blizzard, re post no. 5: Try to talk to some current or recent NYU students about their actual academic experience - things like the process to enroll in classes, class size, whether their classes are taught by full profs or TA’s, whether they feel they have the opportunity to develop a good relationship with some of the faculty. I recently spent a day with a NYU PhD student who was very unhappy with her teaching load & presented a picture of undergraduate education at NYU that was not very attractive
. Maybe that was just one person venting so I wouldn’t take that with much more than a grain of salt, but if you were my daughter, those are the questions I would want to ask. My daughter did choose Barnard over NYU and did ask similar questions, and didn’t like the answers, but the primary reason for turning down NYU was financial, so it is also possible that my d was looking for info from a biased perspective at the time.</p>