Barnard vs Macalester

Parents Forum
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What wonderful and very different choices !

Regarding both schools, has your daughter taken the time to look through the course catalogs and reviewed what the requirements look like and does one school stand out.

IMO, one advantage to Barnard is that your daughter can take courses at Columbia (outside of her requirements) and that makes the catalog and options quite large and extensive. The visiting professors at Columbia can also be a draw for many students. I love the Barnard Modes of Thinking required courses and the connection of so many courses to the city/real world.

The difference in living expenses will also be larger - NYC is quite expensive and while NYC does offer a lot of “free/inexpensive” fun, it can be an issue for students without some spending money.

Your daughter must be an excellent student to be admitted into Barnard RD and had strong essays around the desire to attend a women’s college. There are a mix of students that spend most of their time at Barnard and others that get involved with the broader community. Clubs are mixed between schools, dining halls open to all etc -so it is a way to get a small LAC experience and also the benefits of a large research institution, with the resources available at Columbia too.

At the end of the day, you are living in NYC with all the pros and cons that come with urban living and that is not the right place for everyone.

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22

I take it that she didn’t qualify for financial aid from Barnard?

My daughter chose Barnard, loved Barnard, and living in the city. With so many other universities and programs in the Manhattan, she was able to pick up internships recommended by her professors.

However, in our case, the funds had already been saved up - so it was not at all a limiting factor.

In your case, it will be hard to justify a substantial financial struggle from an objective viewpoint: If your daughter is looking for a terminal degree that requires graduate school, then the undergrad-degree from Columbia Univ is of little relevance. And even if she doesn’t expect to go beyond college, the name on the diploma will probably matter very little beyond the 1st employment.

Of course, we don’t want our kids to be miserable for four years - but so many times students end up settling in very well and thrive at whatever college they attend, even if it hadn’t been their first choice. So hopefully your daughter is open to making Macalester work for her so that this won’t be as tough of a call for both of you to make?

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23

The three traditional undergraduate colleges at Columbia University graduate together on the lawn in front of the Low Memorial Library. The diplomas are conferred by the University president.

In addition, the individual schools will have their own celebration. For Barnard, it’s at Radio City Music Hall. And yes, for Barnard, the diplomas carry the signature of both the University and the College president.

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24

We toured Mac this week and my D loved it. Many of our friends and family have heard of it, and we are in CA. It’s a great school with a very good reputation. If it’s that much cheaper, it would be an easy choice for us, as it’s the most expensive of my daughters choices!

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25

Columbia and Barnard are not in a dangerous area. It is a very safe neighborhood. Common sense caution about not walking though parks at night alone apply to any city, including in St. Paul.

Mischaracterizing and claiming to be fact is a disservice.
With respect, haven’t you been quick to do this elsewhere on this forum with oversweeping generalizations which are not correct and unhelpful ?

Maybe the mother and daughter can write to Barnard and ask for financial assistance and mention scholarship elsewhere but would love to be at Barnard if some financial aid is offered ?

Both colleges are excellent opportunities.

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26

Barnard mom here:

The area around the school is fairly safe, but it’s NYC, which means you have to use a certain amount of street sense and avoid certain areas. I’d say the bigger problem is that the area is pricey (not to mention the UWS, the neighborhood below it). If you’re already worried about money, this will add to the stress.

Barnard’s relationship with Columbia has been covered well elsewhere on this site. As I see it, my daughter gets the best of both worlds.

On the “women’s college” angle: unless you’ve been there, it’s really hard to describe it. These are empowered, proud, smart women. But they aren’t cocooned within a Barnard shell. They are an integral part of the Columbia ecosystem. They intern all over the city and participate in many coed clubs and take coed classes. An “all-women’s experience” wasn’t what drew them to the school. Instead, it was something unique to Barnard. As I said, it’s difficult to describe unless you’ve seen it.

If money is a concern, I would approach Barnard and see if they might offer aid. Congrats on two great options!

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27

Absolutely! The entire neighborhood is essentially only as “dangerous” as one’s perception of how dangerous NYC is - or living in any major city!

Let’s add a perspective: If NYC was a state, it would be the 10th largest in the country by population, and that’s not even counting the suburbs - or about as big as the smallest ten states COMBINED. So, yes, there will be violent crimes committed and reported in the daily news for the metro area - just like there are for entire states, or sets of states with the same population. But as far as probability of a single person actually falling victim, is still low among the 11 Mio or so people living/commuting there every day.

Naturally, there will be instances, where a crime happens in your “neighborhood” (the size of small cities), because someone was crossing Manhattan diagonally (which probably takes as long as driving across the entire Atlanta AREA inside the loop) and just happened to commit a crime right there - but that still doesn’t make your neighborhood “dangerous”.

Havings said that - absolutely, one has to learn to being “city smart”, as one would in every city - just as one has to learn to be “country smart” to avoid specific dangers, areas, woods, roads, times of day, wildlife, activities,… in RURAL areas!

My daughter and her peers usually enjoy to walk alone quite a few blocks from their apartments to campus, or local stores and back, never giving it a second thought - like Millions of other New Yorkers. But, they will also adapt their choices to the time of day: While you’ll still be among people walking on Broadway, Amsterdam and Columbia on the Upper West Side later at night, she probably wouldn’t venture off alone too far down deserted cross streets, she certainly wouldn’t enter Riverside Park or Central Park during late hours once there isn’t a steady stream of people any more.

I imagine elsewhere in the country there are rural areas where local people would know to stay away from after certain hours, or woods they wouldn’t use for jogging any more - yet they wouldn’t think of their neighborhood as “dangerous” despite every other truck sporting a gun-rack.

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Also, perceptions of crime may have been set by the crime wave that peaked in 1991. Crime is down by a lot since then, but the fear of crime is still high.

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29

Yes - for someone who is not familiar: Because of the presence of a large university (and a few other educational institutions, such as two theological seminars, the Manhattan School of Music), many of the surrounding blocks on Morningside Heights will have 40,000+ students, graduate students, faculty, etc. as residents (some commuters), frequenting shops and restaurants in evenings and on weekend nights, that are eager to cash in on the business. Towards the West, you are two short blocks from Riverside Park overlooking the Hudson River, all very pricey real estate - with high-income residents. Moving South you’re heading downtown towards the Upper West Side, where to your left and right will be Central Park and Riverside Park - anything close will be priced astronomically - and in the in the middle will be avenues bustling with life and many landlords expressly catering to student renters.

But, the area East of Campus (and to some degree North) are different. They don’t offer the same vibe and don’t have the same “crowd”. That doesn’t mean they are “off limits” - my daughter has quite enjoyed the diversity and places in East Harlem - but one would indeed want to be more thoughtful about the time of day, or about staying in a group.

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