Macalester vs Barnard College

College Search & Selection
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hey! i committed to macalester, but recently got off of the waitlist at barnard college. im totally torn between the two, and would like some outside guidance to help me make the decision. here’s how my calculus breaks down: (cost is equivalent)

macalester pros:

  1. supportive community on campus – i know some current macalester students and they say there is a very strong, supportive community on campus, with a sort of midwestern friendliness that permeates through the student body. i get the feeling that i would be supported much more at macalester.
  2. less pre-professional – given that mac isnt a finance feeder or business hub, students are less pre-professional and more “life of the mind” (which is what im looking for).
  3. less competitive, cutthroat vibe – columbia is notorious for its stress culture. macalester isnt anywhere near as cutthroat
  4. perfect size – i come from a tiny school, so 2200 students is a manageable yet sizable amount of people imo

macalester cons:

  1. less name recognition – few people have heard of macalester, and it doesnt have the prestige that barnard does. (although, im not sure how much this matters for undergrad)
  2. fewer course offerings – since macalester doesnt have a major research university attatched to it, there are fewer courses to choose from. (macalester technically is in a consortium, but ik most students dont take advantage of it, and there is quite a commute to the different campuses)
  3. no options for graduate research/less research activity – the research options at macalester are more limited than those at barnard, since barnard has columbia attatched to it. i really want to participate in research as an undergrad, as i think it would give me a better understanding of what careers to go into.

barnard pros:

  1. bigger name – barnard is more conventionally prestigious than macalester
  2. more course offerings – being in a consortium with columbia offers more course options
  3. in a more exciting city – manhattan > minneapolis/st paul imo.

barnard cons:

  1. cutthroat culture – columbia/barnard are renowned for being competitive and cutthroat. i seriously worry about how being in a pressure cooker for 4 years will affect me.
  2. isolating – since the campus is so small and there are few common spaces, ive heard that it is hard to make meaningful connections with other students. i fear this could lead to me feeling isolated and lonely throughout college.
  3. lots of bureaucracy – barnard/columbia doesnt run very smoothly… it can be hard to do what you want to do with all the bureaucracy on campus.
  4. small endowment? – barnard has a smaller endowment per student than macalester. columbias endowment is quite small too; only marginally more than macalesters. i worry that barnard might be too strapped for funds to provide meaningful research grants, internships, career counselling, etc.

all of this information is 2nd hand, so it might not be entirely accurate. still, i would really appreciate some insight, cuz i have to make this decision by tuesday.

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Based on what you wrote, I’d go to Macalester. Some of which you wrote you can verify.

Example - course offerings plus course sequences for a major.

I agree with the name recognition and prestige points. However, you will be on campus for four years, day after day. So fit is more important than prestige.

Have you been to either ??

As for endowment size - I would not be concerned. Barnard (and Mac) have tons of financial resources.

As for NYC vs Minneapolis - have you been ? Some love NYC. Some don’t. Minneapolis is very nice with lots to do.

Best of luck.

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To me, it seems your preference is clear. Macalester sounds great for you and is well respected.

Your pro/con about prestige at both schools isn’t that relevant. Once you’re a student there, your success will depend on the environment you are in and your ability to take advantage of opportunities. It won’t be the school name that makes you successful.

To address your concern about research, I guarantee you will have no problem finding research opportunities at Macalester. Many students at LACs not connected to universities do research. My own kid, who attended an LAC in a small city, did research at a university, as did many of her friends. She was also offered a summer research position by her prof at the college. Macalester is known and no one is going to question your ability to succeed as a researcher during the summer.

I think your most compelling reason for wanting to attend Mac over Barnard is this:

Trust your gut. Before you got off the WL, were you happy with your decision? If so, that’s your answer.

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Another vote for Macalester.

Agree with @Lindagaf on research opportunities. My son’s at a LAC and was tapped by a prof to do exciting research his sophomore year (paid work studying coral reefs in Belize).

Also there are only so many courses you can take. You will have many excellent choices at Macalester.

Macalester is prestigious as well; your preference for it comes through loud and clear in your post.

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If cost is similar, and you’re not intimidated by being in Morningside Heights, I would say go with Barnard. More opportunity as part of Columbia, more opportunity in NYC. The first two weeks of college anywhere are incredibly, intensely social - you will meet so many people, all also wanting to make new friends, that you will be overwhelmed with the social opportunities. After that, you will meet additional people through classes and your interests. NYC has more to offer than almost any city in the world. I wouldn’t pass up this opportunity out of unwarranted fear of social isolation. As for the academically competitive environment - if you are planning on premed, this certainly would be an issue anywhere, which is why some students are advised that they have a better path to med school going to their local 4 yr public, or a 3rd tier private, where they will be the superstar and can get a 4.0 GPA more easily, but you haven’t said that you are premed, and even if you were, I’m not sure that Macalester would be that much easier in premed classes than Barnard. Lastly, if for some reason you were unhappy at Barnard, you would very likely have no trouble transferring to Macalester, whereas transferring in the other direction would be much less likely.

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I would absolutely choose Macalester. They are similar in terms of prestige. Macalester has all the urban amenities and advantages without compromising on coziness and community. What’s the point of a LAC without some coziness? Move to NYC after college graduation or do a summer internship there if you like. That’s when NY shines.

Also - not so fast on being able to easily transfer to Mac from Barnard (or from anywhere for that matter.) Mac has a high retention rate and a low transfer acceptance rate of 13%.

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Have you also considered cost of living for entertainment, food etc ? No where do you mention this as a Pro - Barnard is an all women’s college and that is reflected in all they do from specific courses, advising and culture - is that important to you? Yes, you have access to Columbia and the two can blend together, but still Barnard is designed as a women’s college with the purpose of educating women.

From what you wrote, it sounds like Mac has a social culture that more aligns with you. Did you visit Barnard/NYC ?

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I don’t have a lot to contribute on Barnard, but I just visited Mac with my son and it was great if you’re looking for a community of engaged students. Access to Minn/St. Paul is easy (and free for students), the students seemed happy and they love their school. There’s plenty to do, and they all described the atmosphere as supportive with close relationships with professors.

Manhattan might be fun, but think about what you can really afford to do while in college. Mac offers a lot of outdoor rec nearby, and the professional sports and concerts are likely much cheaper there than in NYC.

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Given a LAC as high-quality as Macalester, you will likely have even more research opportunities there than you would at Barnard, where you might have to compete with Columbia grad students. At LACs, you can more easily hop on professors’ research porojects and find mentors for your own. (Yes, I know that Barnard is a LAC, and I’m sure there are tremendous research opportunities there, too, but the relationship with Columbia is not the advantage in this sense that you think it might be). Macalester is a wonderful school, and the location in Minneapolis will open up all kinds of opportunities. Sounds like it might be a better fit.

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You have gotten great advice - so I’ll not try to advise which is better suited for you.

I’ll just try to clarify a few misconceptions, so that you are not making a grossly misinformed/uninformed decision.

Complete misinformation - if anything the atmosphere is collaborative and supportive!
(Sounds like a fable that people make up to explain why they are happy they weren’t admitted.)

My daughter had similar concerns after four years of pressure-cooker at High School.

Yes, people admitted to elite colleges tend to be high-achieving students, with good studying skills, time management, reading comprehension, etc. If anything, students will “compete” with themselves.

Did her habits carry over to how she approached college - sure.
But she had a very happy life/work balance, meeting with friends in neighborhood joints, or in their apartments, attending concerts in Brooklyn, visiting cultural sites, etc. - while keeping an eye on deadlines and due dates, because that’s how she approached any task.

Huh!? There are 30,000 undergraduate students at the university whom you will share courses, faculty, facilities (dining halls, libraries, study spaces), clubs, gyms – and the campus with.
You will find many club leadership positions held by Barnard women!

Remember “your” campus will be on both sides of Broadway, and chances are you might split your time evenly.

I’m sure there are personalities anywhere, that find it hard to make connections.

That sounds like someone is trying really hard for you to get a bad impression - because it’s hard to answer specifically about such a generic gripe that anyone can easily make about any organization anywhere, and will be able to cite some arbitrary anecdote to prove their case.

One great way to describe Barnard’s role within the co-ed university:
“It’s not about the absence of men, it’s about the presence of women.”

So, yes, Barnard women probably tend to be less “compromising” about settling on the societal status quo. If anything that might serve to establish a bond between students.

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Macalester is very much a “fit” school. I’m guessing you have visited and enjoyed your experience. I’d weight that strongly in Mac’s favor.

If you have not visited, I would lean toward Barnard, where you will have access to a small community but also so many more social opportunities via Columbia.

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What do you want to do after college? Is it anything related to STEM? You mentioned that you’d like to do research.

Barnard is one of the 4 undergraduate degree granting colleges under the Columbia umbrella. The Barnard students have some advantages over the other Columbia students. Namely because their core is less lengthy. They also get to register for classes ahead of the other colleges.

Do you ultimately want to go back to the Midwest after college? Or would you want to stay on the east coast.

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Let us know what you decide.
Congrats on two amazing options.

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