@merc81 Considering how porous the campus is, including the Frye St. college housing, it really doesn’t make sense. I wonder if someone was pulling the author’s leg or if someone mistook construction fencing for a new building for something meant to keep people out of campus. There’s certainly been no razor wire or any other barrier to entry in the 35 years I’ve been associate with the college.
@merc81 “In any case, the OP should be aware that by SAT score profiles, the NESCAC LACs place in the order of Williams, Amherst, Hamilton (with 94% of Hamilton students reporting traditional standardized testing). If he wants to consider level of peer academic preparation as a criterion, he should consider this information among other aspects of importance.”
There is another post on CC about why rich parents are so focused on “elite” colleges and I mentioned a NY Times article by Amanda Hess which I thought really described it all. Wanting your kid to be considered academically superior because of the myth that the college he is in exclusively takes academically superior students.
“If he wants to consider level of peer academic preparation as a criterion…”
Don’t you know that Hamilton students are overall academically superior to the students at Bates and if you go to Bates (or even worse a lowly state university) people might not immediately know that you are one of those academically superior students at Hamilton? And shouldn’t that be a factor? Imagine having those lowly inferior students at Bates in some of your classes who are obviously not true “peers” when you could be at Hamilton where you would find your real “peers” academically?
Such nonsense. Go where you heart takes you and remember they are both excellent schools with motivated and interesting students – many of whom are brilliant students who will outshine you academically even if their standardized test scores are lower than average.
@Sue22: Yes, that makes sense. I’ve not seen where it could have been (other than perhaps around a vulnerable construction site as you suggested).
What great options. It’s like the choice beteeen playing in the Masters or US Open. It’s matter of preference for the course only.
I always find it refreshing to look at the CVs of the profs at these schools. It’s going to surprise many that the person teaching many of these classes (with a real PhD and everything) attended a school many wouldn’t even contemplate.
There is no difference when thinking in terms of human intelligence or practical success in life between these schools. Or 99.9 percent of the threads on these debates.
Choose where you think you would enjoy 4 years of a very short and finite adult life span. What programs look interesting? The activities?The travel? The vibe and fun?
Or flip a coin and let the spirit of the universe choose.
“Man plans and god laughs”
To test my theory. I rnsdomly ooked at CS and Sociolgy at Hamilton. It’s what came up when I googled science at Hamilton.
The department chairs and lead prof.
CS. He went to UMass Amherst.
Sociology. He went to the New College of Florida. When it was only a few years old, I think.
I would avoid mentioning how much smarter everyone is than the state school kids. It might not help with your grades.
Is the OP interested in study abroad? We toured both schools and noted differences in this program. At Bates, they told us 50% of students study away. it seems many students who study abroad do so during the “1” of the 4-4-1 program, essentially for a month. They have the opportunity to visit 2 different places in two different years. At Hamilton 75% of students study away, and that is generally for a full semester. Does a short stint in multiple places appeal to you? Or does a longer stay, with deeper connections to the place appeal? That was one of the few real differences we noticed.
Bates: Excellent with respect to your interests in psychology and environmental studies. Noteworthy egalitarian founding principles still appear in student culture. Intelligent, educated alumni.
https://www.bates.edu/diversity-inclusion/diversity-through-academics/off-campus-study/
60% of the class does a junior year or semester abroad. Many of those kids also do a Short Term abroad.
https://www.bates.edu/global-education/considering-off-campus-study/
@apple23: I’m sorry if it seems as if I might have questioned your source. As with the rest of your posts, I accepted your comment as entirely well-researched, but I did think the topic needed additional perspective. I hope you agree.
^“Choosing the Right College” is probably my least favorite of all the guidebooks.
@Sue22 thanks for the info from their websites. Again, I was sharing the info we received on our tours this spring, so I apologize if it is somewhat inaccurate.
The important point I was making was about the 4-4-1 program at Bates. We were told much of the Bates study abroad numbers come from the Short term, which is not an option at Hamilton. From the Bates website - "“60% of the junior class studies off-campus. In addition to semester and year abroad, students in all classes study in Short Term off-campus courses.”
Some people might find the ability to do a short term abroad trip more attractive than spending a full semester. So I think it is still relevant in making decisions about where to attend college.
Also, I don’t know about Bates but at Hamilton, in order to go on a semester study abroad to most countries, you must establish that you have fluency in the language before you go. This requirement makes sense but also limits choices for some students.
Finally, the need for fulfilling distribution requirements vs. an open curriculum also may affect your study abroad options.
@MomInSB, no harm, no foul! I just knew study abroad programs are popular at Bates so I figured the percentage was higher.
I think there may be some study abroad programs through Bates that require language proficiency but I know many don’t. My daughter (who does not speak Italian) was choosing between programs in Melbourne and Florence but in the end decided to stay on campus junior year.
@Sue22 My son, at Hamilton, spent his first semester freshmen year in London and next year heads to Tokyo for a semester, so he will really only have three years of Upstate NY winters 
My daughter really liked her visit to Bates - everyone was so so nice there
FWIW, I asked my Bates student: nearly every friend who studied abroad did so for a full semester, not Short Term. (Mine did a DC semester because we’re already overseas – we were delighted to see that option.) A few kids did both. Financial aid traveled, too.
It always kind of puzzled me when schools showcased getting away/study abroad so immediately and robustly in their info sessions/tours. I mean, most colleges offer study abroad, don’t they? I’d say one might be slightly less concerned re # of students who go vs. questions like: 1) number & range of authorized programs on offer, 2) will the credits and grades transfer back, and 3) where applicable, will financial aid travel? Also, FWIW, with another child (at one of the so-called super-selects), very, very few kids left campus during the school year; study abroad typically happened over summers, if at all.
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Even though the OP requested thoughts on distinguishing aspects with respect to his choices, you appear to be saying (reply #21) that certain Common Data Set information should not be relevant to a college decision. You obviously are free to state this opinion.
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When standardized data is introduced for purposes of comparison, accusations of bias, similar to those you have made, may arise in these forums. For example, on this thread it seems I was accused of bias for stating that Binghamton students overlap academically with those at Brown based on standardized testing profiles: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22165062#Comment_22165062.
I agree with others that trying to distinguish between these two great schools makes on the basis of stats of any kind makes no sense. It’s a matter of fit. Our S loved Bates starting from a college fair meeting with an AO in junior year, and decided not to apply to Hamilton based on a similar meeting where the rep (a student alumni I think) answered the question “what sets Hamilton apart from the other NESCAC schools?” by saying that Hamilton was at the lower end of the group both academically and athletically. I suspect that’s not correct as a factual matter but the impression that students were not super-proud of their school was made and that was it for S.
I’d say this would be true if it’s the case that you don’t place weight on statistics in any comparison. Excepting this, a 29-32 ACT profile certainly appears different from a 31-34 profile, though the ranges obviously reflect substantial overlap as well. In any case, my advice to the OP has been to be aware of this information, and then to apply it as he thinks might be suitable.
There’s no reason not to look at statistical differences. Hamilton does have higher standardized test scores than Bates. On the other hand, that’s not exactly surprising when you’re comparing a school that requires test scores with one that does not.
Every school has its mix of special sauce. Just looking at the NESCAC schools, Williams has tutorials, Amherst is in the 5-college consortium, Tufts has a more city/big school feel, Wesleyan is known for strong arts. I think the OP is trying to figure out the recipe for these two particular schools. If I were to list the top 4 ingredients for Bates I would include:
Bates:
-A history of inclusion. Admitted women and people of color from the start. Has never had fraternities or sororities.
-Test optional since the 80’s. Believes there’s more to a student than how they score on a standardized test.
-Short term. A fabulous opportunity to do something different and interesting. An internship, travel, field work, a course in an unusual area, a practitioner-taught class.
-Purposeful work. A program unique to Bates.
https://www.bates.edu/purpose/purposeful-work-in-the-news/
Who wants to take a stab at Hamilton’s top 4?
We vacation in Maine (love Maine), and I’ve ridden my bike to Lewiston a few times, including a ride through campus last time. My last ride was less than 2 years ago on a beautiful Sunday morning. The ride into Lewiston is amazing…riding next to the river, a hot air balloon literally taking off next to me. Once I crossed the river into Lewiston, it had the feel of town a bit down on its luck. I passed a few people who looked like things were not going well. Sleeping on benches…sleeping on a short wall…wandering around. Lewiston had 17 Opioid overdoes in 2017, 4th highest in Maine; no surprise based on the ride.
The campus is nice but very small. The buildings generally look the same: Brick.
Hamilton is definitely in the sticks, but it feels a bit more “maintained”, and a bit safer. The school sits up on a hill, and the views out the back (away from town) are very nice. The 2 sides of campus (Hamilton vs. the old Kirkland “dark” side) are an interesting touch, with some of my family preferring each of the sides. The town of Clinton is small but nice. I guess you probably have your own opinions…with a sib at Hamilton.
My guess is that you can “do the outdoors” at both schools, you just can’t get to the Maine coast at Hamilton. I know kids at both schools, and they are both very happy.
I apologize for my tone in the post. I looked at your link and you made excellent points.
I’m not a fan of parsing test scores that way and I think it is sometimes misused to promote one school over another by implying one school has academically superior students and another school has academically good students. So I responding with that in mind. But I understand that wasn’t your intention.