Bates & Hamilton

I am having trouble choosing between the two. They both would cost the same. I’m undecided, but interested in exploring psychology and/or environmental science right now. I’m also interested in studio art (probably not as a major), outdoor activities, and study abroad/internship & work experience.

I like the location of Bates better (because of Maine, the outdoors, and not as rural) and am leaning toward Bates in general right now, but on paper, they seem pretty similar. My mom prefers Hamilton because my sister goes there and loves it and it would be more convenient to travel so I’m worried about finding reasons to justify to her going to Bates over Hamilton in the coming weeks if I decided on that.

Anything anyone can add to distinguish the two?

Hamilton offers an Adirondack term for students interested in environmental studies, a Boston-area term for those interested in certain aspects of psychology, and an incredible theatre and studio arts building. Overall, Hamilton is academically balanced as well as spatially diverse and interesting. You can cross-country ski, run, or walk on a campus that’s ten times larger than that of Bates. Hamilton provides a home for a national champion Norway spruce, and is associated with a quintessentially charming village.

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/offcampusstudy/adk

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/offcampusstudy/necc

I have never been to Bates, but is Hamilton really more rural? You can get to a mall, movie theater and a Target in 10 minutes. There are lots of good restaurants in the area. Utica is less than 10 miles away and Syracuse is about 50 miles.

“Rural” may be a misnomer, but, I’ve been to Hamilton and there is very little to do that is within walking distance of campus. IIRC, the village itself is a healthy walk away. OTOH, the campus proper is among my favorites within NESCAC.

I went to Bates and recently visited Hamilton with my son. For sure, Hamilton is more isolated than Bates which is in a small city. Portland is also about 45 minutes away. And you can take a bus to Boston. Not sure where you live, but these provide good options to traveling to and from Bates.

Bates has an amazing outing club that allows you to try out a wide variety of activities.

Two differences between the schools to consider. Bates offers a 4-5 week Short Term at the end of the year to go along with the usual fall and spring semester. Students must complete two of them, but can do three for no additional cost. These are great to dig into one subject in depth, try something new or even study off campus. In years that you do not take a short term you get out in mid April which gives you a jump start on finding summer jobs or internships. Hamilton’s calendar is the standard fall and spring semester.

Another difference is that Bates does not allow any Greek organizations. Hamilton has some Greek, but it does not seem very prevalent.

Wow- what wonderful choices!!! Congratulations!

My son visited and loved both colleges, although he ended up elsewhere. I can see why choosing between them would be a hard choice!

Both stood out to me from my earliest days of browsing College Confidential and similar sources, because the students, alumni and parents were all so happy and enthusiastic about both colleges! And when one visits, both environments are so friendly.

You probably know everything you need to know about Hamilton, because your sister goes there. Is it possible that that also plays into why you don’t want to go there? Maybe you feel you can carve out more of your own space and identity elsewhere? If so, talk that out with your family, too. If not, then make it clear to your parents what the other reasons are and why you feel that Bates is the better match for you.

Yes, arguments for Bates would include the complete lack of fraternities/sororities (vs. Hamilton’s existing but nonresidential frats/sors), and that Lewiston is more of a town than Clinton with more non-college-connected diversity and it enables some good community service opportunities. I agree with a poster above that the 4:4:1 calendar is unique and provides awesome opportunities for travel or internships. If there are certain courses or clubs (e.g., debate is tops at Bates) that appeal to you more at Bates, that also could be an argument.

On the other hand, Hamilton has the completely open curriculum vs. some distribution requirements at Bates. Hamilton has a more spacious campus. Clinton oozes charm. The dark side/light side aspect of campus is interesting and reflected in the variety of students there as well.

Tough choice, but you can’t go wrong either way! Good luck.

This video from NBC will give you a sense for the village of Clinton:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/clinton-arena-2018-kraft-hockeyville-has-long-ice-hockey-history

I am a native Mainer, and am very familiar with the Lewiston area. I disagree with those who say Clinton is more rural. As a previous poster stated, Utica and Syracuse are both quite close. Hamilton provides a shuttle to nearby urban and suburban areas:

https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/transportation/the-jitney

https://www.hamilton.edu/campuslife/transportation/utica-jitney-service

My D attends Bates. We visited Hamilton. I agree with others who say it is rural. It certainly feels very rural in comparison to Bates. My D did not apply to Hamilton. She thought it felt preppy and that the two sides of the campus were too different from each other. I believe one side is actually called the Dark Side, but I wouldn’t take that too literally. I did like that Hamilton showed us a real quad dorm room, which was definitely, er, lived in. The art building at Hamilton is beautiful. The Hamilton campus is bigger, but I don’t think Bates is lacking for space. The Bates kids I know like that it’s never too far to walk to the dining hall.

Short term at Bates is really great, and there are a lot of fun choices, including study abroad short terms. Kids will take trips to the beach during short term and everyone is relaxed. The location of Bates, IMO, is far better than that of Hamilton. Lewiston improves all the time. Portland is a really happening small city, and there is fantastic access to outdoor activities. The Portland airport is pretty convenient. Academically, I think they are very similar. Bates has an excellent Env. Science program and is very good in psych too. The mandatory senior thesis is rigorous, but students enjoy it.

Hamilton has an open curriculum, and that’s really appealing to a lot of people. My D has said more than once that the requirements at Bates are so flexible though that she doesn’t feel that she’s taking required courses.

Really though, you can’t go wrong. I’d go with your instinct. Where do you want to be? Go there.

As a follow up to my earlier post, I do believe Bates will feel more immediately urban – or less rural – in that it’s right on the edge of the small city of Lewiston, whereas Hamilton’s village is vintage American small-town. Lewiston, though, has not been problem free and has been described as “a tough town for the college” in one college guide, which continues on to state that “[a]t one point Bates was surrounded by razor wire to keep out undesirable Lewistonians.” This really isn’t intended to suggest that Lewiston wouldn’t be worth exploring. However, the town may not serve as a draw in a traditional sense.

Source: Choosing the Right College

OP,

You say you are “leaning toward Bates” (translation: you prefer Bates) and also that you like the location of Bates more. On the other hand, your mother loves Hamilton, and your sister is currently attending Hamilton.

Is this your decision or your mom’s? At the end of your post, you mention the need to come up with “reasons to justify to her [mom] going to Bates.” If the choice of where to attend is yours, why aren’t you choosing Bates? Why do you have to convince mom?

I mean, I get it. Travel would be easier (family trip to drop the sibs off at Hamilton!), and you probably already feel like you know Hamilton. But the best advice here comes from @TheGreyKing who writes, “You probably know everything you need to know about Hamilton because your sister goes there. Is it possible that that also plays into why you don’t want to go there? Maybe you feel you can carve out more of your own space and identity elsewhere?”

Go to Bates, young man! Your mother–and possibly your sister–will recover.

My main concern for the OP is that these schools profile fairly differently, most notably by entering factors such as ACT score ranges (Bates: 29-32; Hamilton: 31-34) and students originating from the top 10% of their HS classes (Bates: 55%; Hamilton: 81%). While some students would find either college appropriately engaging, some near the margins might feel more academically at home at one than the other.

Bates surrounded by razor wire to keep out Lewistonians? That is really overexaggerated. The locals are on campus every day. They walk their dogs, go there for wedding pics, the kids do their prom pictures there, the middle school is adjacent to campus, and kids from the high school actually come into the library asking for help with assignments. It’s true that relations with the town used to be more strained, but I don’t think that is the case as much as it used to be. President Spencer did away with some of the more obnoxious sources of conflict, such as trick or drink.

Find a college town that is totally problem free. There isn’t one, anywhere. I agree that Lewiston isn’t beautiful, but I have seen very noticeable positive change just in the last three years our D has been attending. There is a lovely river walk that goes along both sides of the river with an outdoor performance space and a nice playground. Back in October, there was a live band playing for the public in that outdoor space. There are a lot of very good restaurants, the old factories are being converted into art spaces and breweries. There are plenty of places in Lewiston to shop, though I wouldn’t say there are a lot of boutique type stores.

I don’t think Bates kids care that Lewiston isn’t perfect. They aren’t really interested in perfection.

@merc81 , it’s well known that Bates is test-optional and no, the average test scores aren’t as high as Hamilton. That does not mean it isn’t rigorous, or that the kids are less intelligent. Bates has been #1 in Fulbright Scholarships for a couple of years in a row and is regularly at the top of Fulbrights awarded. There is a high rate of acceptance to grad school and med school. Bates cares a lot about grades, not so much about test scores.

We’ve toured both schools multiple times and liked them a lot - in fact, in the past I’ve stuck up for Hamilton to some CC posters from a nearby school who like to denigrate it with some frequency. The schools are sort of similar. I agree that Hamilton feels more “out there” and don’t personally view the closest towns/strip malls beyond tiny Clinton as huge draws. By contrast, Maine is Maine. The surrounding lakes/mountains, nearby ocean, fast-growing, amazing Portland (one of my favorite cities in America), and easy PWM/BOS airport access help Bates feel vibrant, happening, and less isolated.

As for Lewiston/Auburn, you’ll find some neat offerings right there. It’s not postcard pretty like Clinton and I gather you’d use common sense at night perhaps as with anyplace. But dangerous? Not that we’ve heard/experienced. There are actually some great opportunities you wouldn’t get if competing with ++ students in, say, DC or a larger city. Our child walked to work 3x per week for a US Senator (great experience even if the politics didn’t mesh) and an extremely rich/gratifying tutoring job with Somalis. Some weekends, they’ll ski or head to the ocean or, say, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Eventide and other fun restaurants in Portland. Our child had a great semester in DC working for Dept of Commerce and studying foreign policy and is getting excellent summer and post-grad job offers/opportunities (same or better as some friends at Gtown, actually) and several friends are heading off on Fulbrights next year. We are very happy with Bates. The kindness of the kids/admin seemingly across the board is just icing on the cake. All of this said, Hamilton really is a great school too, one I’d hoped another child of ours would pursue but for various reasons did not. Best of luck making your (YOUR) decision!

I went to Hamilton, and I don’t recall ever walking to Clinton. We took the jitney until sophomore year, when we were allowed cars on campus. Yes, Hamilton “feels” very rural, but once you have a car, you have access to the city of Utica. (Actually, I think the Jitney now goes to Utica too) It’s not a large city, and it’s not a particularly nice city, but Utica has twice the population of Lewiston. And then there is New Hartford, which is a little bit closer to campus and a lovely community with some shopping and restaurants. When you visit campus, unless you go looking for the commercial areas, you don’t really get a feel for all that is nearby.

But OP, I would encourage you to go where you feel more comfortable. I can understand the sticky situation you’re in, though, with the logistical issues. Either place you go, I think you will be able to fulfill your wish list.

Note that in reply #10 I’d included information (in the form of HS class standings) pertaining to grades.

^^With respect @merc81, I don’t find the class rank comparison persuasive either…as per the 18/19 CDSs, only 21% of Bates matriculants reported class rank, as did 22% of Hamilton matriculants. We can’t draw the conclusion that one cohort is academically stronger than the other using this incomplete data.

@Mwfan1921: Yes, those figures for this particular year are slimly based, but I’ve been following these schools since I began posting. At that time Bates was still a “more,” not “most,” selective school in U.S. News and had “inverted” figures in comparison to Hamilton. (That is, it enrolled fewer students from the top quartile of their HS classes than Hamilton enrolled from the top decile.) In any case, the OP should be aware that by SAT score profiles, the NESCAC LACs place in the order of Williams, Amherst, Hamilton (with 94% of Hamilton students reporting traditional standardized testing). If he wants to consider level of peer academic preparation as a criterion, he should consider this information among other aspects of importance. If, after consideration, he likes Bates, I’d be all for that decision, though it seems silly to feel the need to make this latter point clear.

Btw, I do like the mention up thread to Fulbrights, a program in which Bates graduates have been perennially outstanding contributors.

https://topproducing.fulbrightonline.org/top-producing-institutions-by-year?filter%5Bproducing_type%5D=Student&filter%5Byear%5D=2018-2019&filter%5Btype%5D=BA

Both schools are great. One of my kids ended up at Bates but loved Hamilton as well. I’ll echo what some other posters have said.

Razor wire? That’s pretty funny. I attended Bates in the 80’s, one of my kids is a grad, and another is a current student and all of us walked into Lewiston without concern. My current student lives off campus and tutors Lewiston students on campus. She has roommates who walk to internships at Central Maine Medical Center and a local school. No razor wire ever. My two cents about the towns is that Clinton NY is more charming than Lewiston ME but it’s also more limited, I thought Clinton was adorable but the walk-to town center, and particularly the walk back up the hill in winter could get old fast. The Lewiston-Auburn community is grungier but might offer more. Neither’s necessarily better than the other.

Bates’ Short Term is a fantastic opportunity for field work or a course focussed in a particular area. Coincidentally, one of my Short Terms was an immersive internship at the Augusta Mental Health Institute, the large state hospital. We lived on the campus of the hospital 4 days out of the week working directly with patients and returned to school for Friday-Sunday. It was an incredible learning experience.

This year Bates is offering 12 different Environmental Studies Short Terms, including travel abroad ST’s, as well as the ability to design one’s own independent study or internship.

To reiterate, I don’t think you can go wrong with either school. They’re both top-notch institutions and you’d get a great education at either.

One little correction-Lewiston is technically 1/2 the size of Utica but it’s a twin city with Auburn. The two together are the same size as Utica.

I’ve seen that published remark too, but have not seen it substantiated beyond that. Can we say it’s not factual?