Battle of the Extremes

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello! I'm a senior dreading the arrival of May 1st. I have quite the decision to make! I'm proud to say I've gotten into some really fabulous schools but this just results in a choice that much harder to make. </p>

<p>With much difficulty, I have narrowed the playing field to two schools that couldn't be more different: Dartmouth and NYU.</p>

<p>Being left with this choice suggests I'm a bit schizophrenic, I suppose.</p>

<p>I'd say in matching my "fit", NYU is much closer to a bulls-eye. I'm an oddball, an aspiring lounge lizard. I always loved being a hop, skip and a short train ride away from the uber-metropolis that is New York and fantasized about living there. I'm very much into the arts and opportunities only NYC has. A sense of community or even cohesiveness has never been something I really looked for or prized. I tend to thrive in chaos. Being able to live 24/7 in NYC gives me more chances at valuable internships than even the flexible D-plan can give me. I was also invited to be a presidential scholar. By NYU standards, I would recieve a good (maybe the most generous?) fin. aid package of 25,000. That leaves a little more than 50% to be covered by either loans, scholarships or lemonade stand entrepenurship. By my standards, that is pretty disappointing and I may try to appeal. The damage to my wallet might be lessened by the fact that I already might have a year off thanks to a heavy AP schedule throughout high school.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is offering substantially better fin. aid than NYU (approximately 40,000) and has alluded to giving me an extra scholarship. I sense they really want me as a student (for whatever peculiar reason) which gives me a warm cuddly feeling. I avoid the sun
and outdoors much like a vampire would. I abstain from alcohol and I never dreamed of joining a sorority but I'm finding Dartmouth to be a charming prospect. I very much appreciate their focus on undergraduate education. Dartmouth is THE classical liberal arts college and because I'm decidedly un-classical, I'm a little curious to see how I would fare there. Plus prestige associated with names, whether I agree with it or not as a judge of schools, is important in the professional world and I think in that respect Dartmouth has NYU beat. I'm not sure of this, but it might also have better networking prospects (?). My mother who went to another small, respected New England college and I suspect is leaning towards Dartmouth, reminds me that there is always time to live in the city afterwards as she did. </p>

<p>A little more about me: </p>

<p>-I'm a would-be philosophy major! But my interests are really diverse and I think I'd like to back up philosophy with another major. I've been mulling over Mathematics, Neuro Science, Comparative Literature and, in NYU's case, Dramatic Writing.
-I expect to be in school for awhile. I might just stay in academia and never leave which might be my only choice if I stay on this philosophy kick.
-Maintaining a high GPA isn't something just important to me for Grad school, but also something important to me personally.
-Diversity of all kinds is immensely valuable to me.
-I tend to alienate people easily.
-I came into this process knowing that money is going to be a larger deciding factor than I would like. I think I'll earn about 5,000 to 10,000 in scholarships if all goes well. I want to avoid loans if at all possible and my mother is willing to contribute what she can which isn't much. I've never worked, but have no problem with getting a job.</p>

<p>Both schools are great and I think I'd be able to find happiness at both. At "Dimensions of Dartmouth", I had a good time and everyone was sweet, albeit lacking a little depth (though that maybe the New York "mistrust of kindness" prejudice). I've visited NYU many times and love the different people on parade putting on airs.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any and all input.</p>

2

<p>Personally, I’d pick Dartmouth. They are giving you a lot more financial aid, and the less debt you have when you graduate, the better. Internships are important, but there will be many opportunities to do them during the summer. Besides, the way you are now is not going to be exactly the way you are in college and after you graduate; your college shapes you. I can safely say that I am much different now at nearly 23 than I was when I graduated from high school in 17, and my experience in college is definitely partly responsible for that. People thought that I wasn’t the typical “Spelman girl” when I went to my alma mater, but I loved it there (and learned that there IS no typical Spelman woman).</p>

<p>To me the year off is not appealing. Having graduated from college in four years when I could’ve taken it in three…I think there is much more to be gained by spending the extra year in college than there is to graduate early (money notwithstanding). You can use that extra time to study abroad, take a semester-long internship, take extra classes you’re just interested in, etc. Doing those things is kind of difficult on the tight schedule of 3 years (believe me, 3 years is not a lot of time. Four years isn’t a lot, either!</p>

<p>As for GPA, don’t obsess – as long as you get a 3.5-3.6+ you should be okay. I had a 3.4 and I’m at a top 10 program in my field at Columbia now. Attitude towards grades is different in undergrad than in high school. And also, I suggest you think long and hard (very long, with a lot of research) before you make the commitment to a Ph.D in philosophy and a life as an academic in the humanities. There are NO jobs in the humanities in academia – do a web search and find out more. Getting professorships and research positions in the humanities, especially philosophy is extremely hard and the odds are stacked against you.</p>

<p>Your mother is right. Living in New York City as an adult (with money, and a better apartment, and did I mention money?) is potentially much more fun than living there as an undergrad. I went to a college near my hometown for undergrad but moved to New York to get my Ph.D, and I love it even on my meager doctoral student salary. I think I have more freedom here than if I were an undergrad (I never have to worry about getting into bars! Most of the bars and clubs I’ve seen are 21+ :D)</p>

3

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<p>Sounds like reasonable advice but … your mileage may vary.</p>

4

<p>yx, just out of curiosity what are your other choices? If Dartmouth’s ponying up so much cash my guess is that other selective schools – that may possibly be better fits with your personality – may be offering substantial aid as well.</p>

<p>I personally like Dartmouth, but there is no question that its character is conservative, and although Dartmouth has a well respected (and deserved) reputation, the “arts” are not its strongpoint. Having said that I would be hesitant to graduate from NYU with a debt of $80,000 to $100,000 and aspirations in academe. So before we flip the coin, what other options do you have?</p>

5

<p>“Conservative” is a relative term for elite colleges. All of the Ivy League universities are liberal places in comparison to the rest of the American public; Dartmouth is just one of the most conservative of them.</p>

<p>I definitely would not go into $80K+ of debt for any undergrad school, not even NYU.</p>

6

<p>Thank you! My mother was looking over my shoulder as I checked the thread and all she could do was nod in consensus…</p>

<p>Out of all the six schools I applied to, Dartmouth was the one that always illicited the incredulous brow-raising from people who knew me. So it is ironic that it is the one I’m leaning towards now. </p>

<p>Momrath: I also got into Cornell and, I’m not sure if most know this one, the William E. Macaulay Honors College at Hunter.</p>

<p>I applied to Cornell to please my Grandmother who spent her summer semester there in 1942 and fell in love with it. The same has not happened with me. They are actually giving me more cash and special designations than Dartmouth, but, much to my family’s chagrin, I’m not feeling any “magic”. </p>

<p>The Macaulay one is both a mouthful and a dream. I suggest to all students looking to go to school in NYC to ignore the less than 10% acceptance rate and just apply! If anyone wants a more in-depth summary, I think Wikipedia has a page up. The already low CUNY Hunter Tuition is waived and housing is free. Students also have access to a sizable (7,500) grant. Advising there is also supposed to be very good. The program was designed to improve the CUNY brand, afterall, so it really is trying to entice the top kids and then see them succeed.</p>

<p>…There are some drawbacks though. People are contractually obligated to stay all four years, which is an uncomfortable position for me to be in. Most of one’s classes are normal Hunter classes so, at the risk of sounding like a snob, there is no real standard calibre of student to expect. Hunter is actually a lot like my current high school–just on nine floors-- so there would be no sense of transition into college life. There have so far only been 3 classes that have graduated–there is no real track record of what students have gone on to DO. Any alumni base for networking and the like is non-existent. </p>

<p>But I think the biggest con of all is that I have to keep explaining what the program is! Or maybe I’m just being snippy.</p>

<p>I applied to two others schools, Columbia and Brown. There is a tradition at my school that no one ever gets into Brown University. This year was no different! We very rarely send kids to the top schools, but Brown has proven to be particularly elusive. I’m surprised though, I thought I might have a chance after I was “likely lettered” by Cornell, NYU and Dartmouth. I was waitlisted by Columbia, which was my first choice. Nassau County is a tough pool! I think Columbia coming through would be a nice solution to this predicament. I should of applied Early decision, I suppose, but I held out because of NYU. I’m tempted to go to a community college, normal Hunter or Dartmouth and then transfer but that may be pushing it. </p>

<p>I’m really happy with my results which, as a whole, were pretty good.</p>

<p>There. Finished. That’s my story! Any other questions or suggestions are very much welcome!</p>

7

<p>The philosphy department at Dartmouth is well regarded <a href=“http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/undergrad.asp[/url]”>About the Editors – The Philosophical Gourmet Report,
as is the neuroscience department and the opportunities available for undergraduate research.</p>

8

<p>Where on LI are you from? I ask because until I got in, my school also could never get people into Brown and we haven’t since. My year, three kids got in from the district which is really rare, we all matriculated, and I think maybe one student in four years since has gotten in.</p>

<p>I know a lot of transfers from NYU at Brown and in general… it’s definitely a place that has a very distinct kind of person who can go there and feel great about it. While I would go to DMouth over NYU in a heartbeat anyway (and Cornell as well), DMouth does not sound like a great fit from everything that you’re describing.</p>

<p>I would probably suck it up and try the “college” thing and go to DMouth for at least a year and see what you want to do from there… I also tend to agree with your mom about the “there’s always time to live in the city” thing, but being from LI, as much as I love NYC, it just isn’t magical/unobtainable/never gonna get to be there kind of place that I’d feel it’d have to be to draw me to a school like NYU.</p>

9

<p>Hunter, even with the honors program, just is not comparable to Dartmouth re: reputation <em>or</em> academics. In addition, students at Hunter don’t seem to be… happy. Not like they are at Dartmouth. </p>

<p>Dartmouth is a school that a lot of students seem to really like. It may feel conservative to you, but it’s not. It’s actually pretty crunchy, in its own way. You’re surprised you like it so much - that’s true of a lot of students like you. </p>

<p>NYU is no where near as prestigious as Dartmouth. NYU is a great school - do not get me wrong - but Dartmouth is liek <em>woah</em>. It opens doors that people don’t even realize are there to be opened. But if you feel that NYU is a better fit for you, personally, then it probably is, and you should listen to that. But don’t just pick it because it’s in the city. Put that aside, and see if you still love it. If you do, then that, plus the city, make it an obvious choice. But if putting the city aside shows you that you’d prefer a different school, weigh that into your decision. Don’t discount the location, but weigh everything. Don’t be blinded by the “NYC!” </p>

<p>Do something about being weightlisted at Columbia. Contact them and let them know that you’d love to attend. That they’re your first choice. If anything has changed since you applied, send them a letter and let them know that - listing an additional award, or send in one more very strong recommendation, etc. I agree that Columbia seems like a perfect fit for you. Make sure they know that, too.</p>

10

<p>deedee, If the money were equal I’d say NYU no contest. Although NYU is known for “gapping” aid, this is huge discrepancy. Do try talking to them, though. It can’t hurt.</p>

<p>I can’t tell if you’re trying to talk yourself into liking Dartmouth or out of liking Dartmouth. :slight_smile: Could you do a last-minute overnight to reaffirm your impression? To me, the choice between Dartmouth and Cornell is fairly equal so you may as well concentrate on Dartmouth; although Cornell, being bigger, may have a wider range of personalities. Cornell also has more affinity with NYC. </p>

<p>Again, I don’t have anything against Dartmouth (and I really like Cornell) but I have a hard time reconciling either with someone who prefers Columbia or Brown. The ambiance and character are just so different.</p>

<p>The Columbia waitlist does put you into an unfortunate waitlist limbo. Have you talked to the folks at Columbia? Sometimes schools will give you a headsup on the likelihood of acceptance (and sometimes they won’t). </p>

<p>I’m familiar with the Macaulay program, but it’s like the Saul Steinberg New Yorker cover – A wonderful opportunity with very little name recognition outside of NYC. I would worry about the intellectual challege.</p>

<p>So bottom line, toss a coin between Dartmouth and Cornell and give yourself a deadline on the Columbia waitlist.</p>

11

<p>It seems totally carzy to take on debt for NYU when a MUCH better school is offering you so much more. Honestly, I think you’re paying to live in NYC rather than to go to NYU. You have a lifetime to live in NYC and Dartmouth will get you access to better jobs there.</p>

12

<p>^^^ “You have a lifetime to live in NYC and Dartmouth will get you access to better jobs there.”</p>

<p>I was about to say exactly the same thing. The one thing that might short-circuit your NYC plans would be to start your post-college life >$100,000 in debt. NYC is no place to save funds for loan repayment. NYU may fit you better right now, but you’re not going to college to have your current identity and comfort zone reinforced; you’re going to be stretched and to grow in ways that you wouldn’t if you stay in that zone. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you left Dartmouth in four years with a whole new appreciation of a close-knit community? As Momrath said, “toss a coin between Dartmouth and Cornell and give yourself a deadline on the Columbia waitlist.” From an objective vantage point, it’s a pretty obvious call.</p>

13

<p>Just an update: I feel as though Dartmouth is the inevitable choice. I’ll continue to hold out for the Columbia Waitlist results.</p>

<p>Everyone always talks about the importance of “fit” but I guess it means very little in the eyes of cold, hard cash. It makes me a little sad. I feel as though I am selling myself. NYU may be a tad bloated, but it seems to be THE place to go for philosophy, so I wonder if I am giving up on that dream, too, with this choice. When I first posted this thread I suppose I should have included that at Dimensions I took two classes on the subject and I was not blown away. A professor I met there who had coincidentally taught at NYU some years prior conceded this. Maybe I am implicitly conforming or sacrificing something with this choice? Perhaps then I don’t even deserve to study the mavericks that shaped philosophical thought any longer.</p>

<p>Dartmouth will be fine to me. I know it. But will I be fine with myself? Or will the a’capella chorus drown out any inner woes…</p>

<p>Go Big Green!</p>