Being a class brain isn't all it's cracked up to be!

Parents Forum
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<p>If I couldn't afford a four year university and needed to go to Kilgore or Tyler Junior (two local community colleges) to start I would. My mom went to Kilgore on a tennis scholarship because her parents wouldn't pay a cent for a college education. I obviously have many friends that have gone to Kilgore and TJC, as well. </p>

<p>Community college is not below me, it's just a different option that I didn't have to consider. Many people here do NOT have that view. They find any school that's not ranked highly in USNews as "unworthy" of their attendance. If you love Harvard or Yale, good for you. What I'm saying is don't act like they're the only schools "good enough" for you.</p>

<p>I mean, just look at the "Stupid college decisions made by smart kids" thread. Or any of the others that have kids telling others that they just won't be happy or challenged at a 3rd tier school. It's irritating.</p>

<p>My choices in schools were pretty much based on whether they had an accredited undergrad BME program, their location, and how much I liked their school. </p>

<p>My schools weren't insanely selective, true. I knew I'd get in to Louisiana Tech and A&M (though was surprised that A&M let me into their school of engineering considering that I applied at 11:58 pm of the last day) and honestly didn't really know what IIT would do...they sent me a free app so I figured why not. The only other school I even considered was Duke, but I probably wouldn't have stood a chance there since my hs doesn't offer several of the required courses. </p>

<p>Applying to more than ten schools looks excessive to me, but I'll acknowledge that in some cases it may not be as bad as it seems. I guess considering the number of schools that were even options because of my major, my opinion is a bit skewed.</p>

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<p>"No matter what anyone says, doing well in school is important in life, and its better to go to a top college than to go to a lower ranked one, otherwise people wouldnt want to go to better schools. People who say otherwise are people who couldnt get into better schools and want to make themselves feel better."</p>

<p>And THIS is the crap I'm talking about. Just because someone can get into a top school doesn't mean that they have to go to one to be successful. </p>

<p>My school isn't a top school, but it has a damn good BME program, wonderful people, and is very well respected in the area I want to work after I graduate. I don't need a big name school to feel good about myself.</p>

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<p>I never said that its a guarantee to do well if you get into a top school. But it certainly matters and helps quite a bit. It doesnt have to be a top school overall, if its top in your major that is just as good</p>

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<p>Ok, that's a bit different. Sorry about that last post, then.</p>

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<p>Quote: "We parents always knew college was Shangri-La. How many would sign up to go back if money were no object? You can count me in - "how does the light shine in the halls of Shambala?"</p>

<p>Me, I'd go back tomorrow. When I attended the UC, it was like $500 per quarter (not including living expenses, but sheesh!! what a bargain). All I had to do was read 1,000 pages a week, work 20+ hours a week to support myself, write papers, fill a Blue Book at midterms/finals, and smoke as much dope as I wanted to. Now, I actually have to behave like an adult, support people other than myself, both financially and emotionally.</p>

<p>I think the climate and competition has changed a lot since I was a college student....I'd probably never even be accepted at UCLA today with my SAT and GPA, but at the time, I knew I'd get in and it was the only school I applied to. I know it's worse today, and I'm sorry about that, but there is so much competition from out of state and international students, since it is a "big name" school.</p>

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<p>The quality, drive and enthusiasm of most of the students who post here is impressive. There is nothing wrong with being focused on an objective. The feeilng that life will end if you don't get into school x is a product of that focus and a bit of naivety. That is an expected mix in young people.</p>

<p>The one thing that is disconcerting to me is the focus on pleasing those who are in authority. There is a lot of discussion on "what ECs should I do?" You should follow your interests and let your creative juices flow. These extremely talented kids are still in high school and they spend all of their time jumping through hoops cobbled together by the college industry trying to please some imaginary admissions functionary. For every kid who goes to math camp because they love the subject I'm sure there many others who do it because it will look good on a resume...same goes with community service projects, etc.</p>

<p>We should encourage all kids to pursue what they have some passion for...whether its math, poetry, building kites, starting a business or water skiing and to hell with building your college resume. Follow your muse and be a better person (and I believe society will benefit from the fruits of labor of these gifted kids).</p>

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<p>I have to agree with rhumbob. Now I'm one of those students that do study quite a lot (but I've never been willing to sacrfice too much sleep for studying) and I became astonished when I started reading the posts at CC. I always studied not because I because of getting into a great university (true it had some influence) but because I wanted to learn. I mean to give you an example even when I secured an A+ in my classes I still strived for higher grades. I spent hours studying just so I could get 100% on my chemistry. Why did I do it? Not for the universities as they don't see the difference and it was after I appled and sent my midterm anyway. Really people shouldn't put too much pressure on which uni they're going to. I got lucky and got into a great university but believe me I would have been just as content going to my safety. I blame parents as well as media for putting this image of elite schools being the only unis worth going to and anything else being bad. I don't discourage students from studying really hard but please let them do it for the right reason.</p>

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<p>My son's friend recently changed job. He had an offer from a firm that wanted his entire college transcript. Had this company not cared about how he did in college, he wouldn't have been asked to produce it.
And this isn't his first job. This is his second, and he's been out of college 2 years.</p>

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<p>I attended a US school, an Australian school and a British school. My personal observation is that American students are EXTREMELY competitive. Every single class is competitive too (Does any other country have competitive spelling for example?) It's not that the work is so much harder (US maths is amazingly easy in my experience, compared to my other schools.) but that the students fight each other to the death, as do their parents. Does anyone actually do an EC that they enjoy? It sounds like such things are only indulged in because they help the college application process. Students feel they have to compete and be a leader in everything. Every aspect of their lives is scrutinised which is so unfair.</p>

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<p>It is true that the college application process is killer here, and since our population is huge, there is a lot of competition. But I haven't observed that US students are competitive person to person (in "I win-you lose" fashion) they're all just striving for individually impressive results so that they can get to where they want to go. </p>

<p>Most intelligent students have several interests, and pursue them with fervor. At selective colleges, the percentage of motivated students, as far as both academics and ECs go, is higher than in secondary school, but that's the natural result of the drive that it took to get there - a character trait, the same everywhere (ask Indian students about the level of competition they face getting into their top schools -insane!) . </p>

<p>Oxford seems to me to be the same - people running around burning the candle at both ends to get the most academically, socially, and EC-wise out of those short, intense terms. Everyone who received an offer worked very hard to get to that point, and no one can afford to slack off on on their qualifications after the offer, which results in a population of motivated, achievement-oriented students.</p>

<p>My son has found Oxford to be a big Belgian Chocolate superstore for his ECs, and he's extremely pleased about that, but the time and effort he devotes to them is no different than when he was in high school - he's the same person in another place. From what he's observed, many other students are the same, from Blues rowers to Organ Scholars to Thesps - all 'doing their thing,' passionately. Some even end up becoming professionals in the EC instead of following on in their subject(s).</p>

<p>Oxford is also competitive academically - many students strive to get a distinction in prelims and a First in finals, which takes a great amount of effort, and the tutors certainly encourage students to do what it takes excel. I think I'm not understanding what you see as a difference.</p>

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<p>I just graduated from a very competitive high school. Although I can say that I genuinely enjoyed and took an interest in most EC's I participated in during high school on some level, even though I was definitely no superstar in comparison to many of my classmates, I can look back at the way I behaved, the way I scheduled my time, the way I sacrificed...much of this was in the name of college admissions. And for the 4.0, overachieving kids, I can only imagine it was much, much worse. </p>

<p>So many people who are dead-set on Harvard delude themselves into believing they really have a passion for the math team, the harp, karate...what they really love is the response they get for succeeding so wildly in these pursuits. </p>

<p>When I listen to my parents talk about their high school experiences, they sound NOTHING like mine. Yet they, as well as many of their friends, went on to excellent universities, and have had very successful careers. </p>

<p>Now, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to simply do well in high school, take the SAT's once, and do a few activities or sports that GENUINELY interest the student and get into what many of these exceedingly arrogant, horribly condescending, over-programmed teenagers of today consider "acceptable" schools. </p>

<p>Theoretically, if there were no such thing as the college admissions process as we have come to know it, there would be a much larger amount of healthy students: playing sports for the normal amount of time per week (not this ridiculous, parent-induced competition starting at age 3), reading books that interest them instead of trying to trudge through Ulysses over the summer so that you can seem the smartest in AP English, starting an offbeat column in the school paper instead of giving up that type of writing in hopes of achieving an editorial position, working an after school job and learning responsibility instead of staying after school to get tutoring because they are getting a B in AP Stat...</p>

<p>No matter how much parents, teachers, peers, rankings, college guides, etc, push students, the Einsteins and Shakespeares of the world will emerge REGARDLESS of if they attended Yale or community college. </p>

<p>I look back at this whole process, and instead of feeling angry or bitter, I feel quite sad and hopeless. I feel as though we have been conditioned to believe NOTHING MATTERS but being the best. Our generation sure knows how to follow directions (read pages 60-120, test tomorrow), but we have lost the ability to enjoy life as teenagers in the process.</p>

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<p>speak for yourself HAHA</p>

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<p>"But I haven't observed that US students are competitive person to person (in "I win-you lose" fashion) they're all just striving for individually impressive results so that they can get to where they want to go."</p>

<p>Really? Maybe it's just because I'm a very competitive person myself, but I see competition between kids all over the place. </p>

<p>I think it's healthy to be competitive...up until jealousy rears its ugly head, anyway. Unfortunately, I think more people tend to be jealous than not. I've had to deal with a lot of people putting words in my mouth over the years.</p>

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<p>Citygal has a great post. Many students who are hitting their heads against the wall are not happy. Unfortunately, I have seen many students become selfish and self centered who would lie, cheat, or steal to get ahead. </p>

<p>These young years are a time in your life, to have the time of your life. I wonder how these super high achieving kids will reflect on their youth?</p>

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<p>cbreeze - I was addressing the resume high school kids build with the intent of gaining admission to a top ranked school. Your college accomplishments will be a huge factor in the early years of your career because you have no track record in the career world. Your college transcript is an easy and practical way for a potential employer to evaluate you. </p>

<p>I will say that even in college and the professional world your non-work / non-college pursuits should be something that lights your fire rather than something to impress your boss / clients / professors.</p>

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<p>I believe that the primary reason I got into Princeton was my clear passion for, and ability in, literature and the humanities. However, if I had not also shown myself to have challenged myself, and earned good, if not stellar, grades and scores in other subjects, I just would not have gotten in. I wasn't going to lie to myself; I knew I was replacable. I knew there were a lot of people my age talented and passionate about the same things I am passionate about (I've met a lot of them this year), but who have taken a tough schedule as well. </p>

<p>So, if I wanted to get into the school I felt would best allow me to pursue my passions, I was going to have to make some sacrifices. I didn't compromise my integrity, I still had friends and a good life - I just worked harder at some subjects that didn't interest me. But you know what? If I had taken regular classes, those subjects still wouldn't have interested me - plus I wouldn't have had the best teachers, who were able to sometimes make me recognize how valuable understanding their subjects would be. I don't see what is so wrong with putting in extra effort in order to get where you want to be.</p>

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<p>^^I totally agree except for me it was my love for the sciences.</p>

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<p>There is nothing wrong with working hard! No one can argue that those who work hard deserve to end up on top. </p>

<p>What is scary is the lengths many students are forced to go to to get to the top. Sure, there are those who are just doing their thing, are naturally gifted, genuinely have a passion for a certain area, and happen to end up at an Ivy league school. I know people like this, and they are very interesting, humble kids with talent and quirkiness that makes me WANT to spend time with them. A lot of these kids, however, end up at places like University of Chicago, Swarthmore...lesser known schools that have Ivy league-league caliber educations without all the pomp and circumstance. People who have a true passion and actually love to learn for the sake of it often don't like being around such frighteningly driven, competitive, cut-throat people that are in greater numbers at schools like Yale. They don't CARE that their school doesn't get as many impressed nods and, "WOW! Are you a genius, or something?" comments. </p>

<p>The truth is, however, many people who strive to make it into the Ivies are doing it because they have been conditioned to think anything else is somehow "below" them. I know because before I got rejected from an Ivy league school, I was, on some level, one of these kids. I actually thought an Ivy or a top ten school was the only place I could get a challenging education. HOW EMBARASSING!!!!!! It wasn't until I started researching more heavily the schools I was accepted to that I realized, hey, there are a lot of students smarter than me at State U, and I am pretty much positive 99% of the profs at any college are more well versed than I am. I was so into, "Oh, I need to go to a place where the kids like to have intelligent conversation..." blah blah blah...you can find that at any school in the top 100. I was so naive!</p>

<p>I am disgusted by the number of people I hear on this board and at my own high school who find it acceptable to cheat, lie, and steal their way to the top. I am no saint, and I have let my eyes roam on a test or two. But the thought of constantly cheating on finals, planning elaborate scams, and taking someone else's ADHD medication makes me ILL. If one more person argues that taking perscription drugs for the purpose of studying is just A-OKAY one more time, I might lose it. Take a step back and think about what you are saying. It is wrong, insane, unfair, on so many levels. Aside from all the moral issues, it is simply pathetic. There are girls in Afghanistan walking miles to get to a school a couple times a week just so they can hope to learn something the old fashioned way, with 60 other kids crammed into one room and sharing 20 books. And we have the audacity to pop pills because we are simply "too busy" to plan well, prioritize, and study the normal way for a test? SICK SICK SICK.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
When I attended the UC, it was like $500 per quarter (not including living expenses, but sheesh!! what a bargain).<br>
<snip>
I think the climate and competition has changed a lot since I was a college student....I'd probably never even be accepted at UCLA today with my SAT and GPA

[/quote]
I remember when it was $234/quarter ;) </snip></p>

<p>I've heard sentiments like yours in the alumni assoc, but the reply is along the lines that "kids today know what it takes to get in and they do it. If you were bright enough to get in back in the day, if you were a HS student now you'd do what it takes and so you'd still get in". I sometimes wonder if they really mean that or they just want to reassure old grads and keep the donations coming ...</p>

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<p>I agree with the OP. From what I've noticed from my experience, everything has gotten way out of hand. In high school, you push yourself to the limit and make (in my opinion) too many sacrifices to get into the top college. There's no time to enjoy high school at all. I had to give up a lot of my social life, and to be honest I regret it. In college, your focus is to get into the best grad school. No time to enjoy college. In grad school, you want to get the best job. No time to enjoy grad school either.
People have to start realizing - and by people I mean both the admissions and applicants - that this is SCHOOL. How come the process of getting into a good school has become an overwhelming and draining task?</p>