Being a teacher in this economy - worth it?

<p>The average teacher compensation nationwide strikes me as about right … or maybe a little low. It appears to be on the left side of the median band for mid-career, college educated workers. That should not be high enough to deserve Rush Limbaugh’s ire, nor necessarily low enough to drive a motivated person away from the profession.</p>

<p>I know a couple of young teachers who are satisfied in their work and getting by o.k. financially. They are trying to position themselves for higher-paying consulting or management positions by mid-career, leveraging the combination of school and community experience, leadership ability, and graduate training in a niche field (social work, ed psych). This career path is not too different from what is typical in, say, Information Technology (moving from technical work in the early years into management and consulting thereafter). A stint in Teach for America or the Peace Corps could be good preparation and good for your career, too.</p>

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<p>Current law requires that the state contribution rate cannot be lower than the member contribution rate. The current member rate is 6.4%. As a result of a ruling by the Texas Attorney General, the state contribution rate for fiscal year 2011 is 6.644%, making the combined rate 13.044%.</p>

<p>From 1938 to 2010, members have contributed 19.9% of revenues, and the state and the employers 20.3%.</p>

<p>Assume that a teacher retires in May 2011 at age 62 with 35 years of service. The teacher’s final average salary at retirement is $64,062. The TRS monthly annuity would be $4,297 as compared to an estimated Social Security benefit of $1,235. </p>

<p>Source: TRS Brochure of January 2011 - <a href=“http://www.trs.state.tx.us/about/documents/trs_value_brochure.pdf[/url]”>http://www.trs.state.tx.us/about/documents/trs_value_brochure.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>95% of the school districts in Texas do not pay into Social Security - teachers retire with TRS funds. There has been no cost of living increase since 2003, unlike Social Security. Very few teachers end up near that salary or those years of service. About 57% of retirees receive from 0-$2000 a month.<br>
Concerning contributions from TRS website: For most of the last 10 years, TRS members contributed 6.4%, and the state contributed
6% to TRS for retirement benefits, a combined 12.4% of payroll.* Current law requires that the state contribution rate cannot be lower than the member contribution rate. The current
member rate is 6.4%. As a result of a ruling by the Texas Attorney General, the state contribution rate for fiscal year 2011
is 6.644%, making the combined rate 13.044%.
XIGGI - how is that breaking the bank? TRS relies mostly on investment income for pensions and is 83% funded.</p>

<p>Most states have an alternate route to teaching for those who have degrees and experience in other fields. If you work in most states and contribute to teachers retirement there for ten years minimum, you would be eligible to collect some amount of teachers retirement benefits. Teaching is a career that is an option for anyone here. Look into the options for your to get a job as a teacher in your state, and to be eligible for the perks, salary, benefits and work schedule that go along with this career.</p>

<p>Public sector pensions are a complicated topic and quite frankly public sector employees, including teachers, have become the new “welfare Queens” i.e scapegoat for every ill out there. In the early 1980’s we had the myth of welfare queens driving cadillacs to pick up their welfare checks and that is why taxes were so high and so forth (which like with public sector employees, the reality of welfare and its issues went beyond the sound bite). </p>

<p>The big problem with public sector pensions is that they are severely underfunded, in part because states over the past several decades have deferred payments to them to balance their budgets, and some state programs have gotten killed investing funds targeted for pensions (Calpers, the california state pension fund, was at one time one of the largest institutional investors in the country), so what has happened in many cases is they have huge pension liabilities because it has come time to pay the piper and the money isn’t there. There are problems with public pension plans, in some of them the rate of contribution of those in them has remained very small with the government picking up much of the cost; in others, because of rules of how pensions are estimated (in NY and NJ, for many government jobs, it is 1/2 your final years compensation, so many workers with the support of their supervisors do a lot of OT their last year, can double their salary, and then end up with a full pension). In NJ you can also have multiple jobs, each with a pension (these are generally political jobs, not civil service)…and so forth.</p>

<p>There are issues that need to be addressed with public service jobs, for example with medical care government jobs are pretty much the only ones that still pay for retiree health benefits, the private sector dropped those years ago, likewise private sector firms almost universally have switched to 401k style retirement plans, that make the worker save for their retirement and the employer matches it at various levels, but also gives them the ability in lean years not to contribute. More importantly, many public service jobs allow you to retire in 20 years or have retirement earlier then the 65 in public sector jobs, so they tend to have higher ratio of retirees at any given time then the private sector (some of these make sense, cops and fireman, for example, tend to take their toll on the person, but clerical and office jobs often have the same earlier retirement options). </p>

<p>Part of this quite frankly is that private sector employees have taken a beating, and in some places (NJ is one of them), whereas it used to be assumed public sector employees took less in salary but did the job because of better benefits compared to the private sector, because the public employees actually got raises, the pay for public employees is no longer on a comparable basis that much less then private sector, who also have gotten killed, besides no raises, with increased health care and other costs taken out of their pay. So people are ****ed at their own situation, and angry that in things like health care and other benefits, like a fixed pension, public sector employees do better then many in the private…and it is very easy to bash public sector employees because so much propaganda has been put out there about them, especially since they are unionized and there has been a campaign for 30 years to try and shift the blame for company failures, outsourcing and such on unions (disclosure, I am not a member of a union nor am I a public employee), plus we all have tales of dealing with incompetent, arrogant public employees whose behavior wouldn’t be tolerated in most jobs, and so forth, and it is easy to blame them. Our dear governor here in NJ is like that, to deflect from the realities, that past governments, republican and democratic, have played games to balance the budget, he has found a scapegoat that everything is greedy teachers and public employees, and is using that to deflect anger when people find out what his gashes to state spending are going to do to their lives. </p>

<p>Most teacher layoffs in this area are by seniority, there is a major battle brewing in NYC to try and get rid of that and make it that the first to be let go are poorly rated teachers, including teachers in so called ‘rubber rooms’ who no principal wants, teachers who have gotten in trouble and so forth but can’t be fired, then it would be by seniority, but it is a massive battle. It often means a 15 year timeserver who hasn’t shown much enthusiasm or great teaching skills will keep their job while a promising teacher who has shown results will be let go. Part of the problem is the fear, not without cause, that they will let go of experienced,good teachers simply to cut costs as the private sector often does and replace them with younger teachers who are cheaper no matter how good or bad they are, which is where education can suffer.</p>

<p>Quite honestly, going into teaching in most places is probably like going into music as a career, you should go into it because you love to teach and want to, not because you think it is a steady job or a good port in an economic storm, because one thing that has been demonstrated over the years, when troubled times happen teachers are not particularly better off, and though there are benefits to being a teacher, the summer off and so forth, the pay generally is a lot less then a white collar job with similar qualifications.</p>

<p>This thread is scaring me. Odessagirl is a college sophomore majoring in History and Secondary Education. Wants to teach high school. Our county is laying off 80 teachers. DD knows that if she had wanted to be a math or science teacher, it would be easier to get a job when the time comes. But she loves history… She is trying to volunteer with kids this summer to have something else to put on her resume in regards to experience. Other than that, I don’t know what else I can suggest to help her. I sure hope she has a job out of college.</p>

<p>I am a teacher and I can imagine the angst many college students majoring in education programs feel at this time. There has been so much negative press regarding the profession, that I am sure it is causing many to rethink their career choice. Simply put, I love teaching and I always try to encourage those who truly have the “gift”…and it is a gift to be able to work with young people and have a positive effect on their lives. Although there does seem to be a great deal of bashing going on, I can hold my head high. Unless you have been in the trenches, you just can’t understand the demands this profession has and I truly have no respect for those who bash the profession without knowledge regarding my job. Do I get paid well? I’m not complaining. I make over $80,000 for 180 days of work. I pay 13% of my health insurance (about $2,500 per year for a family plan) and 11% of my salary goes in my pension plan. I also teach in a high demand field - math - in the place no one wants to teach - middle school, so I feel relatively secure in my job. There are so many negatives about this profession, but the highs are so fulfilling and rewarding. You need to feel confident in your career choice and be positive about your career choice. The sad part is that many wonderful teachers leave the profession because they can’t deal with the feeling that they are not respected, or they choose to enter careers where there is more opportunity for financial gain. Best of luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>Did I write anything about “breaking the bank?” I posted the most recent information that culled directly from the TRS brochure, did not add any comment, and provided the source. </p>

<p>Was this information incorrect? If not, what is your point?</p>

<p>mika08–I believe you would make a fine choice studying to be a teacher.
I am sort of an old professor -teacher myself and have enjoyed it. But, let
me tell you about my son #2’s choice. </p>

<p>S took awhile to catch fire. He graduated from a good high school in Florida
with underachievement sort of grades. After a year and a half working in
the food serving industry he matriculated into a local community college. He
thought (Career Service Testing) he should become a civil engineer. That line
of thinking lasted a very short time. Then, for some reason just before his
last semester achieving his Associate of Arts degree he decided he wanted
to become a Math Education teacher. This was his decision entirely. He identified
FSU as a good education program for prospective science and math teachers.
We supported the decision and today he is in Tallahassee loving the major.
While teaching is a little unstable today with budget cuts, every thing today
is a little unstable as the economy sorts itself out. S has a very different mind
than son #1 or Daughter. Truly a math mind-- this likely explains high school
and the underachievement. </p>

<p>If you follow news coming out of Washington and apply some history to it, you
can see that studying for a career in Science or Math Education is important to
our future as a country. We are in a 2nd Sputnick moment and I trust we will
push Science and Math harder as a country. Science and Math Education is
being funded-- you can get loans that do not have to be paid back if you teach
in certain school settings. I might add, you are never going to get ultra wealthy
in a teaching career. But, I suspect you will be happy going to work-- at least
I have been. </p>

<p>Good luck in your career choice. </p>

<p>.02 David</p>

<p>Mika- I might add to my thoughts above, that it is probably important to
your quality of teaching, security in a teaching position and to advancement
within your school to achieve a masters degree. I’m biased here, and recommend
a masters in your science content area as opposed to a masters in generic
education. We hope S will remain at FSU doing the above before leaving school
getting involved in the complexities of life that make it more difficult to return
to school for graduate education.</p>

<p>.02 David</p>

<p>Vanderbilt study</p>

<p>Merit pay for teachers appears to have no impact on student achievement in early studies.</p>

<p>Seems many teachers are not in it for the money (shocker for the true capitalist, I know) and work very hard even without merit pay. Thus extra money, in the form of teacher pay, had no impact on learning in most classrooms.</p>

<p>[Teacher</a> performance pay alone does not raise student test scores | News | Vanderbilt University](<a href=“http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2010/09/teacher-performance-pay/]Teacher”>Teacher performance pay alone does not raise student test scores | Vanderbilt University)</p>

<p>Simply put, teachers go into the field for mostly non monetary benefits and rewards. When those rewards become not enough to overcome the low pay and poor working conditions people will quit going into teaching. I believe we are nearing that point.</p>

<p>Reform education and come up with a clean way to get rid of underperforming teachers but yet protect good teachers from powerful parent reprisals, unfair labor practices, and crazy school boards. Then you have a winning combination. Merit pay is just a smoke screen and the research will show that.</p>

<p>drizzit - Your last paragraph hit the nail on the head. Every teacher can identify one or two teachers in their building who go thru the motions (just like every business). When someone can develop that method of getting rid of those who don’t do their jobs while protecting those that do, these types of discussions will continue. I sure don’t know what that way should be. Any suggestions anyone?</p>

<p>When someone can develop that method of getting rid of those who don’t do their jobs while protecting those that do, these types of discussions will continue. I sure don’t know what that way should be. Any suggestions anyone?</p>

<p>Those things should already be in place- if not, it is up to the district & the union to make sure they are there. It doesn’t do anyone any favors to have an ill prepared teacher or one who does not enjoy his/her job.
Principals IMO, do not want to take the time to meticulously document teacher observations needed to dismiss a teacher.
TO get around that, some awful things have been done that hurt kids.</p>

<p>For example, one teacher, that had seniority ( although it was in another position- it was still within the district & the school), so she was difficult to remove. But horrible, lashing out at kids, poorly managed classroom… ( she was a title one teacher)
The principal- who was leaving for another school, found a way to get her to " retire" that didn’t require much from the outgoing principal. She assigned her a regular classroom for the upcoming school year. Kids who were new to the school ( or didn’t know any better) were assigned Ms Batouttahell.
The former principal was across the district so she didn’t have to hear complaints, but it took several months into the school year for the teacher to quit, meanwhile the kids had to put up with it, plus they were assigned subs for the remainder of the bulk of the school year.
:stuck_out_tongue: Doesn’t make for a very pleasant working environment I’m sure.</p>

<p>I admit I am not privy to everything that goes on in the admin of a school, but from where I was standing ( as the chair of the PTA after that principal left- & when we were also burdened with an interim principal , I saw a lot- I was in the school almost everyday to help in the classrooms), if the asst principal would pick up a bit more of the admin work, the principal could have time to evaluate teachers & if the district would support the principals in this, instead of making principals jump through hoops using test scores to evaluate everything- then principals could do the work that they should be doing, managing & mentoring their staff.</p>

<p>Simply put, teachers go into the field for mostly non monetary benefits and rewards. When those rewards become not enough to overcome the low pay and poor working conditions people will quit going into teaching. I believe we are nearing that point.</p>

<p>I think the working conditions can be improved.
Our district has what I consider to be large class sizes despite passing initiatives to lower class size ( because the school can use the money for other things).</p>

<p>Reducing class size from what I have read, improves student learning, reduces stress on the teacher although it would increase the cost of education per student- but IMO only if you didn’t consider the increase in academic achievement possible.</p>

<p>I look at private schools in the area, where teachers are often paid less than in public school, but they have more autonomy over curriculum, over class size and configuration & they may stay at one school for their entire career. ( Many teachers I know didn’t begin teaching right after college, but once they did, they stayed at that school for upwards of 10-20 years)</p>

<p>As I mentioned my daughter is working for her M.A.T… I believe her experience in grade school spurred that choice, although her undergrad degree is in biology. Her grade school was an amazing place and made a difference in her life & many other young adults from what they have told me.
She also made lemonade with her lemon when she needed to take a year off from college( because she had to retake a required course for her major) by working in their after school program while she took some classes at a community college. The teacher she had had for three years in elementary was still there and is a wonderful mentor to her.
( Remember Ms Frizzle from the magic school bus? That’s her. :smiley:
No wonder the man who could afford to buy the whole school several times over sends his kids there- but I wish he would stop & think that many parts of the program could be replicated in the public districts he likes to stick his finger in- but it doesn’t require constant testing to see if it is working. In fact the only tests my D had there were spelling & math quizzes that were written by the teacher- but she still was able to test well enough on the ERB in 6th grade to qualify to take the SAT in 7th)</p>

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<p>I DO think this is the responsibility of the adminstration. Where I am, we have an evaluation document that affords the administration the ability to provide evidence that a teacher is not doing what is expected of them. The admins are expected to document the areas of weakness and work towards making the teacher correct these. If this doesn’t happen within the year, the teacher can be dismissed with cause (it’s called insubordination to receive a directive and NOT fulfill it).</p>

<p>Gone are the days (thank goodness) when observations were scheduled events. I believe ANYONE can do a dog and pony show with notice. These types of observations did not give the administration a good picture of what staff was doing on a day to day basis. We have drop in observations now…unannounced…with short followup that is done by the admin and the teacher. These can be done as often as deemed necessary. If an adminstrator sees, for example, that a teacher has classroom management that needs work, he might provide a mentorship and set the goals with the teacher for classroom management that doesn’t interfere with instruction. The admin should then be a more frequent observer in that teacher’s class to see that progress is being made AND to provide feedback to the teacher.</p>

<p>I do believe administrators are the ones who must be held accountable for evaluationg and YES dismissing teachers who are not cutting the mustard regardless of their seniority, area of certification or anything else. </p>

<p>And just for the record, where I am, the union will NOT support poor teaching practices that have been documented by the administration. We just won’t.</p>

<p>FWIW- And, I’m no expert on practices in primary or 2ndary education,
but in post 2ndary education Tenure or the Union does not protect faculty
who are “incompetent” or who engage in “misconduct.” Both are grounds
for being dismissed. But, Administration MUST do its’ job properly documenting
performance in either area and following the agreed upon process. Yes, a chance
at teacher remediation may be part of that process. But, there is a process
for removing poor teachers. I don’t want incompetence around me as it might make
me look bad. The media and negative talk on the street makes it sound as
if Administrators’ hands are tied-- hardly. Over 37 years I’ve worn both hats,
faculty as well as administration – seeing fabulous performance plus occasional
incompetence out of both. </p>

<p>Now that we have discussed the dark side of public education just how are we
going to deal with the thieves in banking, Wall Street and in the insurance
industry-- in other words, the vaunted private sector? Other than Bernie Madoff
has anyone touched them with anything but a kid glove ? Isn’t society just
carrying this crowd?</p>

<p>.02 David</p>

<p>My daughter is thinking about going back to school to get her second bachelors in education . She is currently subbing in our school district. Hoping the outlook isn’t too grim for future employment</p>

<p>I think where you live may influence your decision. Here in Maryland, they hire teachers from surrounding states because they can’t fill all the teaching positions with in-state graduates. My husband hires quite a few teachers who graduate from colleges in PA where there seems to be an abundance. If you live in a state with a shortage of teaching positions, you may have to be willing to relocate.</p>

<p>We have friends with two sons. One graduated with a degree in journalism and the other with a degree in music. Both have now returned to get a master’s degree in education. Turns out, there weren’t too many job opportunities for a journalism/music degree.</p>

<p>In the state of Washington, and many others, prospective teachers can get a Master’s in teaching. It takes less time than a Bachelor’s and often states require a new teacher to get a Master’s within a few years anyway. Have your daughter check the certification requirements for the state or states she is interested in teaching in. She should also make sure that, if she attends college in a state different from the one she attends to teach in, it will lead to certification in the desired state. </p>

<p>Being a teacher hasn’t been very respected or high-paying for quite some time. However, teacher shortages are projected in many areas, and it is a wonderful job for people who are called to it. It can have a high degree of job security, too.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand how a masters can “take less time” than a bachelors. In most cases, you MUST have a bachelors degree first to pursue a masters degree.</p>

<p>Being a teacher hasn’t been very respected or high-paying for quite some time.</p>

<p>I do * not know* what part of Seattle you live in, but it is not true in the part I see.
Teachers are very respected in the community- We wouldn’t have gotten rid of the Seattle district superintendent last week, if they weren’t. ( she had come from an area without unions & didn’t work well with them).</p>

<p>It takes less time than a Bachelor’s and often states require a new teacher to get a Master’s within a few years anyway.</p>

<p>You cannot earn a post -graduate degree without actually graduating first.
:wink:
To teach in Washington State- you do not need a masters degree-
however you do need after obtaining your BA., completion of a state-approved teacher preparation program at a regionally accredited college/university OR completion of an alternative pathway to certification, hold certification in another state and taught 3 years at the P-12 level.</p>

<p>AS for high paying- no not as much as someone who has worked at Google for the past 15 yrs- but ask someone who used to work at Brigadoon 15 years ago & see how they are doing. Or Sea-first Bank. Or Peoples. Or more recently Washington Mutual.
Starting salary in Seattle is $43,000- you can make as much as $83,000 in Tacoma with additional experience & education.
Not bad for 180 days.</p>

<p>Have your daughter check the certification requirements for the state or states she is interested in teaching in.</p>

<p>I do agree with this ;)</p>